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Svetonio
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 20 2010
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Posted: February 02 2011 at 01:52 |
Analog synths sound to me, say, more "human".
Edited by Svetonio - February 02 2011 at 01:54
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richardh
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 18 2004
Location: United Kingdom
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Posted: February 02 2011 at 01:58 |
Svetonio wrote:
Analog synths sound to me, say, more "human". |
that could also be said of music recorded using analog equipment
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Svetonio
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Location: Serbia
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Posted: February 02 2011 at 02:44 |
richardh wrote:
Svetonio wrote:
Analog synths sound to me, say, more "human". |
that could also be said of music recorded using analog equipment |
Yes, of course.That results that the vynil albums sound superior.
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clarke2001
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Posted: February 02 2011 at 05:07 |
Dgregsound wrote:
The main reason I feel analog synths (at least monophonic ones) sound dated in 70's prog is because there is an undeniable warmth to their sound. This is due to the fact that they were recorded strictly on tape and processed thru old school pre-amps and compressors. But another major factor is that analog synth filters (the parameter that controls cut-off frequency and resonance of an oscillators signal) are not made the way they were in the 70's. The filter has a big effect on the overall timbre of a synth and I guarantee if you compare an original Mini-Moog's filter to one of the new Voyager's filter, you would notice a distinct difference.
Personally I feel that this quality is anything but dated. Once polyphonic synthesizers started being utilized in more popular music, that warmth and distinct sound was lost forever. The fact that vintage properties of early synths became less prevalent in music doesn't mean it has a "dated sound". The instruments uniqueness will now forever be associated with the music presented on this website. |
This is what I'm being saying for ages. The golden era of prog ended more-or-less abouth the same time synthesizers became polyphonic. And I agree new Voyagers don't sound as authentic as old Mini Moogs: I think discrete components for their filters are simply not available any more. That doesn't mean other analogs (even new ones) doesn't sound good in their own right: I don't mind Curtis/SSM chips at all.
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rogerthat
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 03 2006
Location: .
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Points: 9869
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Posted: February 02 2011 at 12:36 |
Prog_Traveller wrote:
This reminds me of something that I find very ironic and inconsistent among prog fans. A lot of prog fans seem to hate neo prog because it sounds regressive and not progressive(in the literal sense)and yet many of these bands use digital keyboards. Meanwhile many of these same prog fans prefer analog keyboards in their prog(which were used in the seventies). I'm sorry but you can't have it both ways. You criticize neo for being retro and yet the so called real prog bands you like use analog keyboards. That doesn't make sense to me.
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Well, because using digital keyboards or updating equipment per se does not make the music progressive? I think preferring a certain aesthetic is not regressive in itself but I would agree that people often claim not to like the music if it doesn't have those 70s sounds, which is a contradictory stance.
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topographicbroadways
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Joined: May 20 2010
Location: Australia
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Posted: February 02 2011 at 14:12 |
i think it depends on the synth. The minimoog has influenced pretty much everything to come after it and has never really sounded dated because most things attempt to sound like it still today, it's a timeless instrument like the Les Paul and Stratocaster of Keyboards. But things like Arp's and early polysynths to me do sound dated at times.
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Anthony H.
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 11 2010
Location: Virginia
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Points: 6088
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Posted: February 02 2011 at 14:22 |
If "dated" means "sex in my ears", then yes.
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 04 2007
Location: Grok City
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Points: 18457
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Posted: February 02 2011 at 14:50 |
Hi,
It's a perception issue, nothing else.
What is called "analog synthesizer" these days is akin to a musical instrument ... what is called "digital synthesizer" these days is not an instrument ... it's a "workstation" and a replacement for a lot of other instruments in an orchestra or otherwise.
In those days, synthesizers were used as an INSTRUMENT and many players solo'd with it. Folks like Rick Wakeman and Keith Emerson pushed that envelop and also started using the synthesizers as an instrument from an orchestra, for the most part the string and organ sounds, with slight variations to make them more attractive and not as copycat.
The old debate that one is warmer than the other, isstrictly a preference and has nothing to do with anything else. If it were the opposite and digital came first we would be saying the same thing since that was what we heard first and got more familiar with. But how it is used, as an instrument by itself, or as a replacement for the strings in an orchestra (let's say) .... yeah ... the real thing will always sound better and warmer ... but then, I'm also gonna say, that you have not been listening to some things out there ... Miroslav samples are insanely good and even Genesis and many other bands have been using them for years, which means that our perception is slanted,... and badly so!
An instrument is, really, never outdated. We may think that the contracello is outdated, but it is still used in orchestras and there are many pieces that have parts written for them ... thus, an analog synth will always have a spot here and there, depending on how the musicians uses it and brings it alive.
No one sits here and says that Miles is out dated ... we might say that Chuck Berry sounds out dated ... but instruments themselves don't usually die and disappear ... they morph into other instruments. In the end, an analog synthesizer is going to last a lot more than the other synthesizers, that these days are a dime a dozen ... and more often than not too difficult for anyone to do anything with it, unless you have a year off work, and get paid to learn it. An analog synthesizer is more of an "experiencial" thing than an instrument, since one can change things as they feel them an dillustrate them with their vision, and that is not something that a regular "instrument" does as well. It has other sonic structures, based on its differences in sounds and effects, that almost all instruments do not have and can not produce at all.
In the end, the "Analog Synthesizer" will be remembered. All others will not be called synthesizers anymore because ... they aren't! ... they are samplers and workstations whose job is to help you stay organized during a performance and bring up the sound samples when you need them ... the keyboard player only "plays" when he/she is doing a solo ... which is one of the reasons why in so many of the bands these days, I do not consider their "keyboard" player ... because he's not playing ... and he probably couldn't play a lick if he was slapped into doing it! I might as well go sample everything and then ... show you how good I am ... and I didn't play a single chord, and you thought I was great!
It's a 100% perception issue ...
Edited by moshkito - February 02 2011 at 15:23
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com
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Slartibartfast
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Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam
Joined: April 29 2006
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Posted: February 02 2011 at 18:03 |
Have to strongly disagree with you on that. My keyboard is a digital synth and is most definitely a musical instrument and not a workstation.
Edited by Slartibartfast - February 02 2011 at 18:03
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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stonebeard
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 27 2005
Location: NE Indiana
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Points: 28057
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Posted: February 02 2011 at 18:24 |
I really don't see much of a practical difference for calling a thing a "synthesizer" whether is produces a pure sine wave and one that's sampled accurately, as in many digital synthesizers. My perception on the issue is that, for a well-priced subtractive digital synthesizer with good components, if you can't get it to make sounds as pleasing as analog synths, then it's a result of less than stellar programming, not just because "it's a digital synth." (All else being equal, that is assuming the interfaces are reasonably similar with a similar number of parameters, knobs, and means of synthesis.)
Edited by stonebeard - February 02 2011 at 18:26
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CCVP
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 15 2007
Location: Vitória, Brasil
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Points: 7971
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Posted: February 02 2011 at 19:10 |
Anthony H. wrote:
If "dated" means "sex in my ears", then yes.
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inb4 B& due to sexual innuendo.
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clarke2001
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Joined: June 14 2006
Location: Croatia
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Posted: February 02 2011 at 19:16 |
Synth sound programming is my biggest passion, even bigger then prog rock music, I admit it.  It's possible to squeeze some good analog-like sounds from a digital synth (yes, even DX 7 and Casio CZ series), but it's usually just a fraction of the sonic spectrum. It also depends of which analog sounds you want to produce, and using which digital synth...they all behave and sound different. If you're going for 'exactly that squelchy Moog lead with 20% of oomph and 30% of buzz', most likely you won't get it. But you'll get a dozen of other interesting sounds as you're fiddling with parameters. Synths are endless fun!
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rogerthat
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 03 2006
Location: .
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Points: 9869
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Posted: February 02 2011 at 19:17 |
stonebeard wrote:
. My perception on the issue is that, for a well-priced subtractive digital synthesizer with good components, if you can't get it to make sounds as pleasing as analog synths, then it's a result of less than stellar programming, not just because "it's a digital synth." (All else being equal, that is assuming the interfaces are reasonably similar with a similar number of parameters, knobs, and means of synthesis.)
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Also perhaps that the listeners may not like specific the tones the musicians are using.
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RoyFairbank
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Joined: January 07 2008
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Posted: February 02 2011 at 19:41 |
70s synth work sounds quite natural to me. I love the sound of 80s really low-tech synths by todays standards I'm sure, but they really do sound of a time. I think that is what is meant by dated; of a time, but its been converted into a slur of sorts, hence the form of the word "dated" It's like you look at a photograph of your dad or mum in period clothes, do we choose to think to ourselves "OMG, dated!" or "Of its time, he/she was stylin!" It's a matter of perspective. To me I can sympathize with what they synthesized back then more than now 
Edited by RoyFairbank - February 02 2011 at 19:42
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jammun
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 14 2007
Location: United States
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Points: 3449
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Posted: February 02 2011 at 21:53 |
^^ I think this was what I was getting at. Certain keyboards are associated with certain eras. It is in that sense dated, not necessarily 'bad'.
So to go back to a couple of references.
If a band, say Elvis Costello of This Year's Girl, has a keyboard player who uses a Farfisa, it will have an unmistakable 60's sound, though while used in a more modern songwriting concept will still scream 'retro'. If some unknown band in 2012 decides to use a Hohner Clavinet, the music will have a 70's funk sound. I don't know whether it will scream 'retro' or not, but more than likely it will.
In a sense it's actually the same with actual song choices. When Emerson plays a Meade Lux Lewis tune, it is dated to a particular place and time. It's not bad, it's a re-creation of that place and time. That he chooses to make the piano sound like one of those old honky tonk ones, it's not bad, though it is dated.
But back to analog synths. They were of a time. They were monophonic, a hugely limiting factor compared to what is available now, or even in the 80's. So yes, they have a dated sound, and no it's not a bad sound. It's identifiable with an era.
Now I'm getting even more confused 
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Can you tell me where we're headin'?
Lincoln County Road or Armageddon.
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Slartibartfast
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam
Joined: April 29 2006
Location: Atlantais
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Points: 29630
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Posted: February 02 2011 at 21:58 |
I don't really consider "dated" to be an insult even if it is meant as one. Take the harpsichord. Dated? Yes. So what?  I've never played a real one. What I'd really like to get my fingers on is one of those massive pipe organs. My Grandparents on my Dad's side had this two keyboard electric organ. I no longer remember the brand. My Grandparents on my Mom's side had an old clunky old non-electric organ.
Edited by Slartibartfast - February 02 2011 at 22:04
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clarke2001
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Posted: February 02 2011 at 22:02 |
I don't find the monophony limiting, quite the contrary in fact.
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Slartibartfast
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam
Joined: April 29 2006
Location: Atlantais
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Points: 29630
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Posted: February 02 2011 at 22:04 |
clarke2001 wrote:
I don't find the monophony limiting, quite the contrary in fact.
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I like being as phony as possible.  May have been a harmonium. It looked kind of like this:  Had to be a harmonium.
Edited by Slartibartfast - February 02 2011 at 22:08
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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The Quiet One
Prog Reviewer
Joined: January 16 2008
Location: Argentina
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Points: 15745
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Posted: February 02 2011 at 22:06 |
Thanks everyone for their posts, some were really insightful and informative (not sure if it's exactly the same lol).
I was actually referring to 'dated' as sounding bad. Because, well, anyone who says that something that sounds dated is criticizing it. But I agree with you guys, of course the Analog Synths are dated, as are many other keyboards, but that doesn't mean they sound bad.
I just simply don't get how some perfectly "normal" synth sounds like those from Corea or Hancock are considered 'bad sounding'. I can understand if a late 60's, early 70s synth sounds bad, but not really the other.
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jammun
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 14 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 3449
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Posted: February 02 2011 at 22:31 |
clarke2001 wrote:
I don't find the monophony limiting, quite the contrary in fact.
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But many did, hence the popularity of the Oberheim and Prophet synths.
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Can you tell me where we're headin'?
Lincoln County Road or Armageddon.
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