Nazi Salute.

James wrote: Vibrationbaby wrote: James wrote: Although getting a paint scheme accurate is hard enough as it is!  But yes, you want to at least show the correct markings. Even some privately restored German warbirds such as FW 190s & Messerschmitt Bf 109s don't carry the swastika. Instead they paint on the Bundesflagge und Handelsflagge on the tail fins where the swastika was normally located on wartime Luftwaffe aircraft. The aircraft on static display in German museums usually carry the swastika. Back to the moron who gave the Nazi salute. Why he did it ? because he is a moron. I'd like to see him do that in front of a Royal Canadian Legion branch during Friday bingo night.  He 'd get his head kicked right in. I was reading recently that the Focke-Wulf Fw 200 Kondor that is being restored for static display in Germany is being restored in a pre-war scheme but without Hakenkreuze (even though it is a pre-war scheme, many did have the Hakenkreuze on the fin in a while circle on a red band). I think sometimes it's people outside of Germany who get weird about it, rather than Germans themselves because they think "ooh, best not offend the Germans!".  Obviously Germans do get upset about it though and it's perfectly understandable why as well.

The Condor was initially designed as a civilian airliner and later modified as a maritime patrol recconaisance / bomber but was soon outclassed by allied fighters operating from carriers and was then regulated to transport duties. At least one was used by Hitler as a personal transport. This one was used by both by Danish Airlines and BOAC before it was passed over to the Royal Air Force. I don't think the Danes or Brits painted swastikas on it. The one that is under restoration by Lufthansa was hauled out of a Norwegian fjord in 1999 and is pretty much derilect. It is intended to restore it as a civilian model although it flew with the  Luftwaffe.


                                                                                      

The stupidity of this law is echoed by hate-speech laws all over the world. The notion that you can stop an idea by banning a word or gesture that connotes it is ludicrous. Words and gestures are arbitrary. Ideas will stick around and we'll just find another way to say them. You see this again and again with PC speech in the US.

We used to call people with mental disabilities "simple" which seems a lovely word to me, but some people used it in an insulting way, so they changed it to "retarded," which after all only means "slowed." But this did nothing to change the way people thought and some people still used the word hatefully, so it became "mentally challenged" which seems to me far crueler than "simple" but it still has done nothing to change the original idea that authorities found distasteful. I think "mentally challenged" is on the way out as well, but who can keep track really? Banning a swastika or a salute will never do anything to stop hateful ideas from existing.

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote: It's time for British but mainly for USA people, to learn that the conception of freedom of speech, is notuniversal. For some countries, some acts and demonstrations are offensive, so we are in the right to ban them, if you don't like it, it's your problem, I believe there's an extraordinarily abuse of freedom of speech in USA, but that's the USA problem, not ours.

You mean that you do ban them, and that you think you are in the right. I disagree with the second statement. You should learn that your opinions aren't universal.

The T wrote: Yes your history is rusty. Is rusty because it doesn't take into account that the big opposing party to Hitler's first ascension were the socialists, another state-above-individual movement that got ahold of the Prussian mentality. The nazis came in second but they were already such a power that Hindenburg asked Hitler to be his chancellor. Then only after Hindenburg died did he eliminate the Presidency and declare himself Fuhrer and Reichkanzler. He had eliminated oppositio first, and his first rivals to be put away were the communists, you know, those with quite a similar view but with a differen t color. Yes, the conditions in Germany were ripe for totalitarianism to take hold. Yes your history is rusty, or better yet, simplistic.

The Dark Elf wrote:   It depends on your definition of "passed legally". If you consider that communists (which accounted for 12% of the Reichstag) were banned from voting, and that many social-democrats were forcibly stopped from taking their seats by Nazi thugs, I believe it's noted that the Nazis would not have had the majority required to pass that act.

I've heard that those numbers were pretty specious. Of course I don't know for sure. I'm not sure that it's necessary though. Just the vast numbers themselves are shocking.

Ivan wrote: nobody outside our country has the right to judge our laws.

I know this has nothing to do with nazi saluting but I feel like talking about German airplanes. My first experiences with airplanes was with models and the weirder the more interesting. Plastic kits from Frog and Airfix depicting German aircraft were the most iteresting and I built quite a few. I think my dad was a bit worried at one point though. He bought me a Lancaster once but I had a whole Geswadwer of German fighters. One of the most interesting was the Blohm & Voss Bv 141 experimental reconnaissance  aircraft. It's asymetrical design was revolutionary just like many German designs that explored everything from supersonic flight to variable geometry wings. Suprisingly the Bv 141 was very stable and the engineers  had got it right with the torque generated by  the BMW 801 radial engine  cancelling out the offset godola that contained a three man crew. It was suprisingly stable with textbook pitch and roll characteristics, somewhat of a flying paradox that even suprised the test pilots and designers. It was also a challenge for a 12 year-old kid to make  because of the detail required in painting the glazed crew gondola




Edited by Vibrationbaby - March 01 2011 at 15:47

Is the freedom of speech of us terrible Americans offensive?

I still don't understand why any country's laws would be exempt from criticism.

So let's see Ivan, you can say" I believe there's an extr.....abuse of freedom of speech in America" but I better say nothing about Peru, which admittedly since I know little about Peru,  I would not do anyway but see here in America we "abuse" freedom of speech if such a thing can be done