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Textbook 
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 Topic: Giving A Clone Five Stars
Posted: August 02 2011 at 04:49 |
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Am I the only one annoyed by the plethora of reviews on this website which acknowledge that the record they are reviewing is a Yes/Genesis/whatever imitation and then giving it five stars?
Call me crazy but isn't one of the criteria for five stars being somehow new or different in some way?
Instead we get "Wobbler! Totally unoriginal Yes pastiche with nothing new to offer anyone! Five stars!" and so on but that's hardly the only example. I just don't understand how you can AGREE that an album is a clone and still consider it a masterpiece. Said it before, will probably say it again, people here review soft.
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TheRingshifter
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Posted: August 02 2011 at 05:14 |
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A band can be incredibly similar stylistically to another band and still have completely original compositional ideas.
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harmonium.ro
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Posted: August 02 2011 at 05:17 |
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^ I would rephrase that as "same musical ideas applied differently". Doesn't sound as good as in the way you put it, but that's how I see the situation.
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octopus-4
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Posted: August 02 2011 at 05:19 |
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I don't think to have ever rated a clone 5 stars, but I don't see anything wrong in doing it if it's good. Just to give an example: Marillion were often considered a Genesis clone in the 80s, but Fugazi was really better than anything the Genesis were doing in the same period.
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I stand with Roger Waters, I stand with Joan Baez, I stand with Victor Jara, I stand with Woody Guthrie. Music is revolution
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Vompatti
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Posted: August 02 2011 at 05:21 |
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^ But Fugazi sounds nothing like Genesis.
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octopus-4
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Posted: August 02 2011 at 05:24 |
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Are you sure? I think they were quite similar. Less than on Script, maybe. However I don't want to discuss Marillion, I just wanted to say that a copy can sometimes be better than the original. I haven't seen a masterpiece of this kind, yet, but sooner or later it may happen.
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I stand with Roger Waters, I stand with Joan Baez, I stand with Victor Jara, I stand with Woody Guthrie. Music is revolution
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Vompatti
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Posted: August 02 2011 at 05:28 |
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I can't imagine any of the songs on Fugazi on a Genesis album, and the sound is quite different too.
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octopus-4
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Posted: August 02 2011 at 05:30 |
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It's a generic feeling, but again, I wasn't meaning to open a discussion about Marillion. Try Pink Floyd and Mostly Autumn instead.
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I stand with Roger Waters, I stand with Joan Baez, I stand with Victor Jara, I stand with Woody Guthrie. Music is revolution
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Slartibartfast
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Posted: August 02 2011 at 05:36 |
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A clone is an exact musical duplicate so I can only apply that to some tribute bands. Just because a band borrows heavily from a style that's been done before doesn't mean that they can't put out a five star.
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
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rdtprog
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Posted: August 02 2011 at 05:42 |
 Slartibartfast wrote:
A clone is an exact musical duplicate so I can only apply that to some tribute bands. Just because a band borrows heavily from a style that's been done before doesn't mean that they can't put out a five star.
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^ Good statement! I have never heard a clone's cd without being a tribute band.
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octopus-4
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Posted: August 02 2011 at 05:45 |
So let me ask: If it was on PA, do you think that the Australian Pink Floyd DVD in Liverpool doesn't deserve five stars? Some songs are played better than Pink Floyd have ever done live and most of all they are able to combine the Waters and the Gilmour feelings as the fans would have liked them to be. There are Dogs, Comfortably Numb and High Hopes in the same concert....
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I stand with Roger Waters, I stand with Joan Baez, I stand with Victor Jara, I stand with Woody Guthrie. Music is revolution
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yanch
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Posted: August 02 2011 at 05:45 |
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If an album is great, regardless of whether it sounds similar to or borrows stylistically from another band shouldn't matter. As stated a clone is a cover band doing tribute to an established band. Yes, there are bands who borrow heavily from other bands, but if they make a terrific album they deserve five stars.
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tamijo
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Posted: August 02 2011 at 05:47 |
I would agree, to the extence that if someone directly state that what we got here is a clone, just replicating another Band / Album, its would not deserve 5 stars, but can you give an example that a review contains that combination. ?
The fact that You think its a clone, and the Reviewer state that it sounds similar to X, is not the same thing.
Edited by tamijo - August 02 2011 at 05:49
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Prog is whatevey you want it to be. So dont diss other peoples prog, and they wont diss yours
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rogerthat
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Posted: August 02 2011 at 05:56 |
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The thing that impedes giving an album five stars is either weak tracks or flaws that make the album not strong enough for such a rating. If the reviewer does not see being a clone of Genesis as a flaw, there is no problem whatsoever.
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tamijo
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Posted: August 02 2011 at 07:14 |
Guideline says : "not every album that you enjoy will be a perfect "masterpiece of prog""
What i read here, is that even if an album is good, even if i find that every track is good, i should still consider if its a Masterpiece. So i should infact consider things like if its original, if its consistent, if its 100% prog. ect. ect.
This make me think that if i listen to X band, sounds unbelivable like 1975 Y band, and does not bring anything new, i should not give 5 stars, even if every track is good.
But that is teoretical !, and it will allways be subjective, if you think its a clone, or a good new band in a genre.
Funny enough, we allways have this debate about Neo Prog. , but to me a lot of Metal Prog sound very similar too.
Edited by tamijo - August 02 2011 at 07:19
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Prog is whatevey you want it to be. So dont diss other peoples prog, and they wont diss yours
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octopus-4
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Posted: August 02 2011 at 07:25 |
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So only authors matter, not the interpreters...
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I stand with Roger Waters, I stand with Joan Baez, I stand with Victor Jara, I stand with Woody Guthrie. Music is revolution
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tamijo
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Posted: August 02 2011 at 07:34 |
octopus-4 wrote:
So only authors matter, not the interpreters... |
To get a 5, i would say every aspect matters.
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Prog is whatevey you want it to be. So dont diss other peoples prog, and they wont diss yours
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tamijo
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Posted: August 02 2011 at 07:39 |
octopus-4 wrote:
So let me ask: If it was on PA, do you think that the Australian Pink Floyd DVD in Liverpool doesn't deserve five stars?
Some songs are played better than Pink Floyd have ever done live and most of all they are able to combine the Waters and the Gilmour feelings as the fans would have liked them to be. There are Dogs, Comfortably Numb and High Hopes in the same concert.... |
I could not give a tribute band 5 stars, As i would not pay 50£ for the best replication of Mona Lisa, even if i thought it was as good as the original. But i would gladly pay a 100£ for a good original piece of art.
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Prog is whatevey you want it to be. So dont diss other peoples prog, and they wont diss yours
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Junges
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Posted: August 02 2011 at 07:47 |
Clones don't exist. What exist are bands with very similar sound/influences. No matter how you try to copy a band, you can't steal their compositions. You will have your own songs, your own lyrics, etc. Even if it is very similar, it is still different and unique. Let people be happy giving 5 star ratings, what do you care for?
It seems that people care more about if a band is a "clone" or not than if the music is good or not.
Edited by Junges - August 02 2011 at 07:49
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octopus-4
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Posted: August 02 2011 at 07:48 |
tamijo wrote:
octopus-4 wrote:
So let me ask: If it was on PA, do you think that the Australian Pink Floyd DVD in Liverpool doesn't deserve five stars?
Some songs are played better than Pink Floyd have ever done live and most of all they are able to combine the Waters and the Gilmour feelings as the fans would have liked them to be. There are Dogs, Comfortably Numb and High Hopes in the same concert.... |
I could not give a tribute band 5 stars, As i would not pay 50£ for the best replication of Mona Lisa, even if i thought it was as good as the original. But i would gladly pay a 100£ for a good original piece of art. |
So you can appreciate Keith Emerson only when he plays original things. Fanfare for The Common Man, Picture at an Exhibition, Israel, Hoedown. There's anumber of ELP albums whose rating should be decreased because they don't contain only original stuff?
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I stand with Roger Waters, I stand with Joan Baez, I stand with Victor Jara, I stand with Woody Guthrie. Music is revolution
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Giving A Clone Five Stars
