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Topic Closed"Tales From Topographic Oceans Sucks" Why?
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Snow Dog View Drop Down
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Points: 32995 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 21 2011 at 14:16
Originally posted by lazland lazland wrote:

Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

^Sorry I refuse to read the Daily Mail

Quite right - it's the most horrid, squalid, disgusting rag around. I'd rather read Dirty Desmond's tits and gossip rag.

High Five!!!!
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Points: 557 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 21 2011 at 16:52
I know Wakey wasn't interested in the album, but I think his parts are as or more integral to this album as any other, his parts are sublime. And the solo at the end of the Revealing Science is one of my favourite minimoog solos.
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Points: 18059 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 21 2011 at 19:55
This album is defined by how one bombastic performer supposedly felt during the recording process......I fail to see how that has any bearing on the final outcome......Other than for me to say his performance was $hit and I can easily see and hear beyond that. I sometimes feel that is an excuse by some to label this album subpar at best.......Hogwash!
In spite of Wakeman's performance or personal feelings towards this album, my ears tell me it is a brilliant album.
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Points: 18059 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 21 2011 at 19:58
Originally posted by lazland lazland wrote:

Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

^Sorry I refuse to read the Daily Mail

Quite right - it's the most horrid, squalid, disgusting rag around. I'd rather read Dirty Desmond's tits and gossip rag.
 
Lazy sir.....please define "squalid" for me.......I think I am gonna like this word and will need to add it to my vocabulary.
Big smile
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Points: 69 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 21 2011 at 20:03
Originally posted by jean-marie jean-marie wrote:

Tales should be better as a single album


I completely agree.
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Points: 22989 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 21 2011 at 20:05
Originally posted by MillsLayne MillsLayne wrote:

This was a little hard to digest the first time I listened to it, but now I absolutely love this album!  A real gem!


Same here, except it happened a few years back for me.
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Points: 32588 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 21 2011 at 20:09
I resent the OP for making Ivan realize he never reviewed TFTO.  Angry Tongue

It is strange to me, and I do wonder...

Had "Close to the Edge" been replaced by one of the pieces from Tales from Topographic Oceans, would Yes's audience like Close to the Edge more overall or less?  Would they have liked the new Tales from Topographic Oceans more or less?

In other words, is "Close to the Edge" perhaps only as well received as it is because it is on a single LP?  Had it been on TFTO, would the song have been perceived as boring or pretentious?
https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays
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Points: 18016 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 21 2011 at 20:11
Quote WAKEMAN: I love Yes dearly, but I didn't enjoy Topographic Oceans. At the time I actually said it was an over-padded pile of sh*t. Those were the days when things were very black and white; we weren't mature enough to sit down and discuss things. 
The truth of the matter is, I still don't like the album. There's a lot of very good things on it; there's some very good moments on it. But there's tons of padding. When we went in to do it, we had too much material for a single album. So you either made it into a double album - which means write a lot more stuff - or you just reduce the size and make it into a single album. The fact of life is, we went the wrong route and we didn't have any other material. So there was padding for days on it. And Yes had never done that and I really objected to it. Vehemently objected to it.


I lol'd

Originally posted by The T The T wrote:

Originally posted by OT Räihälä OT Räihälä wrote:

Some people don't like it because they can't cope with classical music. 


Originally posted by AtomicCrimsonRush AtomicCrimsonRush wrote:

people just don't understand it - but its absolutely essential prog. everyone wants an album like Topographic - ask the artists!
Originally posted by The T The T wrote:

 

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Points: 6088 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 21 2011 at 20:12
Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

I resent the OP for making Ivan realize he never reviewed TFTO.  Angry Tongue

It is strange to me, and I do wonder...

Had "Close to the Edge" been replaced by one of the pieces from Tales from Topographic Oceans, would Yes's audience like Close to the Edge more overall or less?  Would they have liked the new Tales from Topographic Oceans more or less?

In other words, is "Close to the Edge" perhaps only as well received as it is because it is on a single LP?  Had it been on TFTO, would the song have been perceived as boring or pretentious?


Indeed, I think the format turns people off more than the actual music does. Which is strange, because prog fans are supposed to be open-minded about that kind of thing... Ermm

Of course, this doesn't apply to all of the album's detractors.


Edited by Anthony H. - November 21 2011 at 20:13
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Points: 18016 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 21 2011 at 20:13
Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:


Had "Close to the Edge" been replaced by one of the pieces from Tales from Topographic Oceans, would Yes's audience like Close to the Edge more overall or less?  Would they have liked the new Tales from Topographic Oceans more or less?


I would like it (CttE) more, because the title track from CttE is one of my least favourite "clasic prog epics" ever (dethroned only by Supper's Ready)
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Points: 19557 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 21 2011 at 20:58
Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

I resent the OP for making Ivan realize he never reviewed TFTO.  Angry Tongue

Don't blame him, sooner or later i would had reviewed it, and the rating would had been the same.

.

Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

It is strange to me, and I do wonder..

Had "Close to the Edge" been replaced by one of the pieces from Tales from Topographic Oceans, would Yes's audience like Close to the Edge more overall or less?  Would they have liked the new Tales from Topographic Oceans more or less?

Impossible, "Close to the Edge" is a product of Wakeman in his best moment and Bruford (White only turned into the Yes drummer in Relayer, Tales is a product of a band with internal problems and the obsession of Jon Anderson to do a conceptual album at any cost..

CttE has three songs, all excellent, not a single weak moment 

Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

In other words, is "Close to the Edge" perhaps only as well received as it is because it is on a single LP?  Had it been on TFTO, would the song have been perceived as boring or pretentious?

CttE is well received, because it's a masterpiece, no Tales song is in that level IMHO, probably if Tales would had been a single, the reception would had been better, but Bruford said it clearly when he left YES....Close to the Edge is the album for which YES will be judged, and I don't want to live at the shadow of it."

Iván



Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - November 21 2011 at 21:00
            
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Points: 1217 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 21 2011 at 21:34
I really can't stand Yes, but I do love TFTO. Weird, huh?
Continue the prog discussion here: http://zombyprog.proboards.com/index.cgi ...
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Points: 7593 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 21 2011 at 21:41
...not really mentioned yet are the power of Anderson's lyrics!  Compared to the very nice, but mindless, "babble" of CTTE, he really took a quantum leap in terms of his lyrical poetry.  VERY moving and powerful, IMHO. 

However, use with caution....I was in line at the store and absent-mindedly started singing "Relayer.....all the dying cry before you!"  The woman in front of me gave me quite a dirty look.  
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Points: 32588 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 21 2011 at 21:50
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:



Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

In other words, is "Close to the Edge" perhaps only as well received as it is because it is on a single LP?  Had it been on TFTO, would the song have been perceived as boring or pretentious?

CttE is well received, because it's a masterpiece, no Tales song is in that level IMHO, probably if Tales would had been a single, the reception would had been better, but Bruford said it clearly when he left YES....Close to the Edge is the album for which YES will be judged, and I don't want to live at the shadow of it."

Iván



You may have missed what I'm asking:

Pretend for a moment that Tales from Topographic Oceans consisted of four sides:

3 that you most like from TFTO
and then substitute your least favorite track with "Close to the Edge" (the song, not the album).

For instance, you might have:

"The Revealing Science of God"
"The Remembering"
"Close to the Edge"
"Ritual."

Substitute any song you want.  Would you like TFTO better? 
https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays
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Points: 29630 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 21 2011 at 22:01
Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:



Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

In other words, is "Close to the Edge" perhaps only as well received as it is because it is on a single LP?  Had it been on TFTO, would the song have been perceived as boring or pretentious?

CttE is well received, because it's a masterpiece, no Tales song is in that level IMHO, probably if Tales would had been a single, the reception would had been better, but Bruford said it clearly when he left YES....Close to the Edge is the album for which YES will be judged, and I don't want to live at the shadow of it."

Iván



You may have missed what I'm asking:

Pretend for a moment that Tales from Topographic Oceans consisted of four sides:

3 that you most like from TFTO
and then substitute your least favorite track with "Close to the Edge" (the song, not the album).

For instance, you might have:

"The Revealing Science of God"
"The Remembering"
"Close to the Edge"
"Ritual."

Substitute any song you want.  Would you like TFTO better? 

No.  I suppose once upon a time I had a preference for some of the sides over the others, but I've never deliberately skipped any part whenever I've played the album.  And substitution is not an option.
Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Points: 28 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 21 2011 at 22:13
With all due respect to M.Wakeman, it's very easy to understand why he didn't like TFTO (when he recorded it, because I read that he changed his mind since then). Listen to Wakeman's discography. On the more than 80 albums he released there is 2 good, 4 listenable and 74 pure boring pieces of crap. And there is no one of them, good ot bad, that get just a bit close to the pure genius that is TFTO!

While I loved CTTE, TFTO just changed my life...forever!
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Points: 4098 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 21 2011 at 22:21
Originally posted by Zombywoof Zombywoof wrote:

I really can't stand Yes, but I do love TFTO. Weird, huh?

Are you writing that ^ from a mental institution?LOL

If Tales was written in the age of CD's it could have been 60 plus minutes long and everyone would be happy---with double albums it's a nearly 90 min experience which is a hard thing to pull off and there are very few perfect double albums---but Tales has some really good stuff---
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Points: 29630 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 21 2011 at 22:40
Originally posted by twosteves twosteves wrote:

Originally posted by Zombywoof Zombywoof wrote:

I really can't stand Yes, but I do love TFTO. Weird, huh?

Are you writing that ^ from a mental institution?LOL

If Tales was written in the age of CD's it could have been 60 plus minutes long and everyone would be happy---with double albums it's a nearly 90 min experience which is a hard thing to pull off and there are very few perfect double albums---but Tales has some really good stuff---
I still have my first Tales CD and it's a double disc box set non remaster.  Probably the least desirable version out there on CD and it still holds up well.  If you want to cut it down, get yourself some software and edit for yourself.  I'm just sayin'.  Filler filler filler.  You need to have some fiber in your diet. Tongue
Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Points: 7593 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 22 2011 at 00:46
 
Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

Originally posted by lazland lazland wrote:

Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

^Sorry I refuse to read the Daily Mail

Quite right - it's the most horrid, squalid, disgusting rag around. I'd rather read Dirty Desmond's tits and gossip rag.

High Five!!!!

Dead   Just read the interview with Wakefield (um, I mean, Wakeman!)  Here's a sample:

In those days, I used to have my roadie actually lying underneath the Hammond organ throughout the set. If anything went wrong he could try to fix it. Also, he could continually hand me my alcoholic drinks.


We'd often have a little chat and on this particular evening in Manchester, I thought he said: 'What are you doing after the show?'


'I'm going to have a curry,' I replied. 'What would you order?' It seemed a strangely specific question but I didn't have much else to do so I told him. 'Chicken vindaloo, pilau rice, half a dozen poppadums, bhindi bhaji, Bombay aloo and a stuffed paratha.'


About 30 minutes later, I started to get this distinct waft of curry. I looked down and my roadie was lying there holding up an Indian takeaway. 'What's that?' I asked.


'You said you wanted a curry.' 'No. I said I wanted a curry after the show...' However, it smelled really good so he passed up the little foil trays and I laid this lovely spread out on top of the keyboard and ate it.


The rest of the band weren't best pleased - after all, there was a certain mystique surrounding Yes.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-1045969/Yes-original-Spinal-Tap-says-Rick-Wakeman-Seventies-prog-rock-supergroup.html#ixzz1ePjgvJC6
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Points: 1199 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 22 2011 at 05:37
Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

Had "Close to the Edge" been replaced by one of the pieces from Tales from Topographic Oceans, would Yes's audience like Close to the Edge more overall or less?

Can't speak for everyone, but speaking for myself, I'm pretty sure I would have liked it less. Let's say we switch "Close to the Edge" and "The Ancient", my favorite from TFTO. I'd still like the resulting CttE album less than it is now. I consider "Close to the Edge" to be perfect, while the TFTO tracks can only dream of being that good. I don't even enjoy all of the basic material (although I do enjoy most of it). Add to that a lot of padding and you have some definitely flawed tracks.

Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

Would they have liked the new Tales from Topographic Oceans more or less?

Let's say we switch "Close to the Edge" and "The Revealing", my least favorite. Sure I would enjoy the resulting TFTO album more.
Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

In other words, is "Close to the Edge" perhaps only as well received as it is because it is on a single LP?  Had it been on TFTO, would the song have been perceived as boring or pretentious?

I really don't think so. I think most of the people who dislike TFTO but like CttE simply don't like the individual songs on TFTO. It doesn't have anything to do with their combined running length.
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