Libertarian Thread #2: We Shall Never Die!

JJLehto wrote: Very simply, I'm a stubborn b*****d! I can't just abstain. I used to feel obliged to vote for the "main guys" and I've changed that. If I really though JoeBob was best I'd write him in. I can't just not vote though.

Then write in someone else's name.  Like FDR or something.

Brian... you're not a Republican.  So why do you feel obliged to vote in their primaries?

You never did before.  So why now?

Not voting makes no difference in Republican Primaries as you've never voted in a Republican Primary before (as far as I am aware).


Edited by James - January 05 2012 at 20:11

horsewithteeth11 wrote: Out of curiosity James, in Britain do voters of a certain party often switch over to other parties or is party loyalty pretty solid for most peoples' lifetimes?

Most Labour voters stick to them but some like myself, who are more left, are disillusioned with what's on offer, whilst some closer to the right often do change their vote.

Tories voties are pretty much always Tory voters and I'm pretty sure that's the same with the Republicans.

Those who are in the middle and therefore Liberal Democrat voters are feeling very upset right now and many have defected from them.

My parents have always been loyal to one party.  My grandparents have as well.

Those brought up in a certain era are more likely to remain loyal too.  New Labour supporters though are more likely to defect because they haven't really witnessed the left as much as their forebears.

The problem though comes in when people tactically vote.  This happens all the time over here.

e.g.

An MP is only 1000 or so votes ahead from the previous election and so there's a chance of ousting that MP.  Especially if he's been terrible.  So whether he is Labour, Tory, Lib Dem or some other parties MP, many people will vote for the candidate behind them (from the last election) to try and get the MP out.

I find in general that staunch Labour voters will not vote for a Tory in order to oust a Lib Dem but a Labour supporter may vote for the Lib Dem or Green Candidate to oust the Tory.

As I said, Tories pretty much always vote Tory.

Try moving to Cuba James.

Very simply, I'm a stubborn b*****d! I can't just abstain. I used to feel obliged to vote for the "main guys" and I've changed that. If I really though JoeBob was best I'd write him in. I can't just not vote though.

James wrote: But Brian, from what I know of your political views, Paul is not the answer.  Nobody is.  I understand why you feel he's the best candidate when everyone else is so terrible but can you just abstain? I'd rather spoil my paper or abstain, than vote for the lesser of all those evils. Even in the UK I find it difficult.  Although the gap between the left and right is a bit larger here, the left (I mean New Labour here) is so wishy-washy now that even they are not doing much for me.  There are of course fringe political groups who are much more left but they don't stand a chance and they don't have enough members or candidates in either councils or MP wards to even allow me to vote for them. I'd never vote for the Conservatives.  I was fooled briefly by the Lib Dems.  Never again.  So there's only one option for me now and even that's becoming less likely unless major changes take place. I'm very much a disenfranchised voter.

You are not disenfranchised.  You are unhappy.

Equality 7-2521 wrote: Epignosis wrote: Anybody think we'll see a US revolution in our lifetime? Yup

Erm... surely if you withdraw troops, you have to put them somewhere, so sure, they'll get moved. 

I know that's not what you meant though.

James wrote: JJLehto wrote: James wrote: I don't think any of them are suitable.  Why would I vote for Ron Paul?  Seriously? There isn't a left in America.  The Democrats are barely more left than the Republicans and they're not even really that left. So I guess I'd be a Mickey Mouse voter. Or, accept Ron Paul is (shockingly) closer to representing my honest beliefs than anyone else. Even if the mindset behind them are different. Also that frankly America could use some less government. You're fooling yourself, Brian.

Hey, you're entitled to believe that. I've been thinking pretty long about this and it's only January, so still plenty of time to make official decisions. Though I would ask you how I'm fooling myself, since I know what I believe in, know what Paul has said, and know what the Democrats have done.
Disagreeing is 100% fine but can't say I'm fooling myself, not to be a dick but I've thought and researched this more than most Americans

And I prefer making concessions to hopefully get something done than doing nothing at all.



Edited by JJLehto - January 05 2012 at 19:23

JJLehto wrote: James wrote: I don't think any of them are suitable.  Why would I vote for Ron Paul?  Seriously? There isn't a left in America.  The Democrats are barely more left than the Republicans and they're not even really that left. So I guess I'd be a Mickey Mouse voter. Or, accept Ron Paul is (shockingly) closer to representing my honest beliefs than anyone else. Even if the mindset behind them are different. Also that frankly America could use some less government.

You're fooling yourself, Brian.

James wrote: By the way guys, you do realise Obama isn't fully running the show?  He cannot just say he'll do something and it'll happen. The same will be the case for old Ron if by some miracle he became President.  He wouldn't be able to do anything in power.  He'd be a puppet.

Really? He can do a lot. He can nullify federal laws. He can withdraw troops and covert operations. He can talk to countries. That alone would translate to a significantly different country.