Analog Synths sound dated?

I agree with a lot of what Surrealist said. The analog keyboards required musicians to experiment and come up with something interesting. Digital keyboards allow musicians to cut corners and replace experimental and interesting with slick, as though it were the same thing.

I'm troubled about how to regard the word 'dated'. I do think some old Prog including their keyboard passages sounds dated in the sense that it does have a feel that is peculiar to a bygone era. The word often brings a negative value judgment with it, though, and that's when I prefer to switch to the words 'classic' and 'timeless'.

Surrealist wrote: I may be a bit ahead of the times.. but to me.. digital music sounds very dated.  Modern production values using pro tools and other techy "fix all" post recording software intervention sounds sterile and over produced.  Bands are ashamed to release material that sounds natural and organic.  The quest for perfection is now attainable for anyone with cubase in their apartment with a drum sampler, a keyboard with 8000 patches and one guitar and bass with endless amp modeling plugins.  Staying on topic here.. the keyboard is the easiest thing to midi or attach a new sound to a key,or layers etc.  The problem is that good art is about the imperfections as much as the perfection.  You need both.. you need a balance of skill but feel. Tight but open and able to breath.  Can one imagine a drummer not on a click track.  What a nightmare in post production not being able to quantize or sync to. The older keyboards had problems.. but they often also had tubes in them and other unstable components like tape reels or analog oscillators.  Personality.. temperamental... things that also invoke human emotion... like frustration, anger, of the joy of "my gear is actually working tonight" Analog tape machines are still a better way to record on many levels.  If not for the simple fact it's limitations keep the artist more honest.  "Do I really need to nail this live in the studio" "Really?  no way to fix my incompetence?  Am I really going to have to shed and learn my instrument?" 1975 answer... sorry .. but YES! 2012 answer.. that's fine.. no worries, we'll fix that up for you with no problem, just another 45 minutes of studio time. Prog took a dive, not because Punk rock arrived.. but because Prog bands stopped making great albums.. and the ones that came along later like Marillion and Spock's Beard helped in a big way... but didn't "out prog" their forefathers. Look what happened to the keyboard picture.  How is "Love Beach" compared to "Tarkus" "Tormato" compared to "Close to the Edge" "Giant for a Day" compared to "Power and the Glory" We can't Dance" compared to "Foxtrot" While hindsight is everything.. it's more the keyboard sounds that caramelized the music than guitar, bass or drum sounds.. until of course the sampled drums arrived. Just because you can do it ....doesn't mean you should. This speaks for the digital revolution as well. I love roots prog.. and I love early Black Sabbath.. but I don't like prog metal.  It lacks emotional dimension and the playing is far to robotic.  I should like it.. I like prog and Sabbath.  I like early Rush.  I could not be more ripe for a proper prog metal release.. but I don't like any of it.  I think a lot has to do with the keyboard sounds and how they are integrated. Deep Purple had heavy sounding keys.. and Lord and Blackmore knew how to blend that into a special sonic tonic. I don't feel that at all with Dream Theater.. but I should.. the playing is much more technically slick.. and it's prog type playing.. but what is the missing ingredient (s)? Why does it not move me?  Why was I yawning all through their set in San Francisco this last summer?  I shouldn't.

When I listen to DSOTM or the Lamb for example the datestamp of release date is irrelevant, classics will never age.

This is certainly true.  If you really listen to DSOTM, the drums are not really recorded all that well and the playing is far from metronomic.  Mason really "breathes" (no pun intended ) 

But that recording made today would not happen and it would sound cold and sterile and I don't believe it would have the effect on the listener that it did by being so much more natural in it's production.  I think one of the guys mentioned that the final mix was done really as a performance with everyone's hands on the board essentially playing their part.
Automation is convenient but not necessarily translate into a better mix that feels natural. 

I remember seeing the video for "Coverdale Page" with the massive automated board... but that record pales in comparison to Physical Graffiti or even "Burn" for that matter.

I have a friend who is a fine jazz musician, but his working gig is playing in an internationally popular Reggae band.. but they actually drag around a real Hammond B1 with a real Leslie all over the world.  It's just that important to them.
I don't see the prog guys having that kind of integrity anymore.  (there may be some, I just haven't seen it often)  But I did see Roger Hodgson touring with a mini pipe organ which really made the show. ( I'm really referring more to the Hammonds and bigger cumbersome stuff than a mini moog etc...)

I know money has a lot to do with it.. and in the golden age of prog these guys were doing well.. and could entertain more epic staging... but it's a catch 22 with a question. 

Is the fact that they stopped making great records part of the problem that prog died years ago to the general consciousness of the masses? ....

If we look at "The Grateful Dead" .... I think they kept it pretty real until the end.  The massive speaker systems.. and the looseness in the shows and playing.

Certainly "YES" could have been that band that everyone still flocked to... deadheads could have been YES heads.
But the 80's yes would have alienated that neo hippie crowd from them with the Trevor Rabin era clean cut look and slick sound.  I know people like to dance.. but people like to take drugs and trip out to music also. 

moshkito wrote: I'm just bored with this fascination for saying today is great and yesterday stunk, or vice versa.

 

...  The analog keyboards required musicians to experiment and come up with something interesting. Digital keyboards allow musicians to cut corners and replace experimental and interesting with slick, as though it were the same thing. ...

Edited by moshkito - October 27 2012 at 12:32

verslibre wrote: ... I think more young 'uns are jettisoning this attitude with every year. The '70s seem more relevant than ever. Every new rock band (that isn't metal) seems to invoke the past, if not dwell in it. ...

Edited by moshkito - October 28 2012 at 18:10

tamijo wrote: Cant actualy blame the equipment, if the music comes out too cold, the perfectionism is in the human mind, the equipment is just tools, you can chose to use or not use. ...

It's not the synths themselves that sound dated, it's the sounds people use.

HackettFan wrote: timbo wrote: It's not the synths themselves that sound dated, it's the sounds people use. When synths first started to be used by Keith Emerson and the like, the synth sounds were very simple. I know, I built a monophonic synth in about 1980, with patch cords just like the Moogs, and was surprised how quickly I was able to emulate Emerson's sounds - that buzzy resonant sawtooth Moog lead sound. Now if I hear a band using that, I think it does sound dated. But it's not the synth itself, it's the sound that it reminds me of a time and a place. As people moved on, they created more complex sounds, more subtle sounds. You didn't need digital synths for that, you just needed a bit more imagination and experimentation. When digital synths came in, they created more room for experimentation, with different waveforms, sampled waveforms, different modulation schemes etc. They also created their own signature sounds. So I'd argue it's not analog or digital, it's simply sounds commonly used in a given era that can make things sound dated. It's all just the opposite for me. 80s synths sound dated. Annoyingly slick, packaged and corporate, and the 80s synths dragged the music in that direction. All the rough edges were gone and they never meshed with other instruments like guitar that were appreciated for their rough edges. There might have been more room for experimentation, but it was mostly the manufacturers who programmed the presets that did the experimenting.

Edited by richardh - April 05 2013 at 01:37