Why classic prog faded?

Like Surrealist, I don't like that DT instrumedley either.  Honestly, one couldn't do much worse as far as choosing a track to showcase DT goes.   It is the exact facet of their approach that I dislike, this desire in showboat in ways that get very cringeworthy.   "So much for less is more, huh"...that sums it up.   I'd be interested to know what however does Surrealist make of ELP, then, because Emerson had a similar propensity to show off.  I personally think this kind of self indulgence gives prog a very bad rep.   Education and sophistication should also be accompanied by a bit of discipline.   

Yeah....I love this.  You attribute statements I did not make to me and then claim that arguing over music is a waste of time.  Thanks much.   I guess it is a waste of time arguing or discussing anything if you don't pay attention to what the other person has said.  

silverpot wrote: There has been so many posts in this thread so maybe I've got a bit confused and interpreted Surrealist's the wrong way, but what I think he's saying is that the 70s bands were all completely new sounding, whithout a hint of earlier music,

Edited by tamijo - November 24 2012 at 01:32

lol

Surrealist wrote: That DT clip is exactly the point.  It is so overdone, absolutely tasteless nonsense, no song, no intention other than just showboating, creates no mood other than boredom and if you listen closely, it's just the same formula being repeated over and over.  If one wants to know why prog faded.. this is it.

I am not going to claim to be the biggest DT fan around here.  I am just glad the argument that modern players don't know their instruments is slowly evaporating, cause its nonsense.  Like Dark Shade, I dont think DT had any negative influence on classic prog in the 70s, they were too young back then .  I am going to argue however, that if DT had any probable influence on prog as a whole, it was positive.  They were involved in popularizing a whole new progressive subgenre.  Yeah, its not your cup of tea, granted, but they caused alot of young folk in the 90s to pick up guitars and have an interest in playing something else than Nirvana, and they also turned newer generations onto classic bands like Rush.  These newer generations of prog is keeping the style alive, even if some of them are copying the old styles too much (like the Flower Kings get rapped for).  I will still go see their live shows.  The Watch playing Foxtrot was one of the most enjoyable shows I have ever seen.  Keep it alive!


Edited by Neelus - November 24 2012 at 09:11

Dean wrote: Surrealist wrote: Great lead guitarists use their chops to create melody and further embellish.  Howe on "Awaken", Hackett on "Firth of Fifth", Van Halen "Eruption" Schenker "Lights Out", Roth "Catch a Train" Blackmore "Highway Star" Page "Since I've been Loving You"  Jeff Beck "Because we Ended as Lovers" Robin Trower "Day Dream" .... the quality is in the note selection.. that's the magic.. And then Hackett and Howe did GTR  .

GTR is an easy target, I'm well aware. True enough, I didn't like it either (except for the very fleeting Hackett To Bits). But for the benefit of anyone who reads the the post without knowing, Steve Hackett has made quite a few very excellent and very very progressive albums since GTR.

Also, to rehash a point I've made before about the stifling effect of the music industry, I offer a quote from Steve Hackett about the formation of GTR; "It evolved out of the frustration of doing albums which weren't getting a look in the American market place. I had done these things, which were a labour of love, but in America I got the usual response of; 'We'll take it if Phil Collins is on it'. I found that more and more people were interested in what I was doing only by association. I found the idea of doing GTR came out of the mutual frustration of two guitarists who felt the same way..." (Sketches of Hackett, p.101)

Steve Hackett is making just the sort of artistic albums he wants to nowadays because of his strong control over the business end of production and distribution, just as Zappa did way earlier during the hard times when Prog first faded.

HackettFan wrote: Dean wrote: And then Hackett and Howe did GTR  . GTR is an easy target, I'm well aware. True enough, I didn't like it either (except for the very fleeting Hackett To Bits). But for the benefit of anyone who reads the the post without knowing, Steve Hackett has made quite a few very excellent and very very progressive albums since GTR.

Edited by Dean - November 24 2012 at 12:36

Hackett came to his senses quickly... while others didn't.  That is why he has still been a relevant progressive artist for so many years while others haven't.  I think Hackett's best work has been post Genesis.  Don't think I can say that about any other prog artists post solo career.  

Dean wrote: ... All modern musicians know this already, all guitarist learn their craft on stage, not in the studio. The only person who needs to get anything straight is you.

moshkito wrote: Dean wrote: ... All modern musicians know this already, all guitarist learn their craft on stage, not in the studio. The only person who needs to get anything straight is you.   Dean .... I think I have to correct this line ... most guitarists learned their craft at home ... and later went on stage with it ... only TODAY, with the DAW's and other software, is the stage and studio wayyyyyy less important than it was in the earlier days for learning. In the earlyearlyearly Tom Dowd days, the music was LIVE in the studio and recorded directly onto the disk ... you gotta see that DVD! That would be late 40's and early 50's (the most valuable part of his DVD!)   Goodness ... 40 years ago we had a tape deck to listen to our stuff (spendy, too!) ... 30 years ago ... a cassette player was great for rehearsal ... and by the time the computer age went "live" in the 90's,  it was the beginning of the end of the big name studio that charged too much that kept so much music out of people's hands.   But you know what? ... you can't stop art, and the folks that live for it ... so getting rid of the "middle person" is probably the best thing that has ever happened to music, and is likely to change the definition of music forever! We won't see more of its results for another 10 to 20 years, I would imagine.   "Classic" dies ... because that word is stinking, and everyone is comparing it to radio stations playing "classic rock" ... which, for the sake of a discussion here, the music we love NEVER was "classic" ... but TIME ... has made it the classic that we now call it SO! It was just something that we liked, loved and such THEN ... and as it turns out ... it was way better than most music ... or it would be ignored by most and never remembered.