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Snow Dog 
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Joined: March 23 2005
Location: Caerdydd
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 Posted: January 18 2013 at 09:41 |
 Kirillov wrote:
We'll have to agree to disagree then Snow Dog
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Well you can;t disagree that they are Rock Operas.
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octopus-4
Special Collaborator
RIO/Avant & Zeuhl, Neo, Post/Math, PSIKE
Joined: October 31 2006
Location: Italy
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Points: 15044
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Posted: January 18 2013 at 09:53 |
BRAVE was a single CD of about 70 minutes. It has been released as many of the original Marillion albums in a special edition including a bonus CD filled with unplugged versions, demos and trivia.
I haven't ever seen a vinyl edition, but if it has been released on vinyll it has to be a double LP for sure.
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I stand with Roger Waters, I stand with Joan Baez, I stand with Victor Jara, I stand with Woody Guthrie. Music is revolution
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Ambient Hurricanes
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Joined: December 25 2011
Location: internet
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Points: 2549
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Posted: January 18 2013 at 10:31 |
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Tales. Not even close.
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I love dogs, I've always loved dogs
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Kirillov
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 03 2011
Location: Wales
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Points: 700
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Posted: January 18 2013 at 10:39 |
Snow Dog wrote:
Kirillov wrote:
We'll have to agree to disagree then Snow Dog
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Well you can;t disagree that they are Rock Operas. |
Townshend himself has admitted that he was not being serious when he called them 'rock operas'.
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Snow Dog
Special Collaborator
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Joined: March 23 2005
Location: Caerdydd
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Points: 32995
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Posted: January 18 2013 at 10:40 |
Kirillov wrote:
Snow Dog wrote:
Kirillov wrote:
We'll have to agree to disagree then Snow Dog
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Well you can;t disagree that they are Rock Operas. |
Townshend himself has admitted that he was not being serious when he called them 'rock operas'.
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maybe he thought he was being too grand. But that is what they are in essence.
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silverpot
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Joined: March 19 2008
Location: Sweden
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Points: 841
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Posted: January 18 2013 at 10:53 |
Please help me out here, what's the difference between a concept album and a rock opera? Both tell a story, what is needed to make the difference? 
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Snow Dog
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Joined: March 23 2005
Location: Caerdydd
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Posted: January 18 2013 at 10:56 |
silverpot wrote:
Please help me out here, what's the difference between a concept album and a rock opera? Both tell a story, what is needed to make the difference?
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An opera has a libretto. The story is told through characters singing the story. Concept albums don't do this. The story is most often through narrative. The concept can also be much looser that an opera which shgould have a clearer storyline.
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octopus-4
Special Collaborator
RIO/Avant & Zeuhl, Neo, Post/Math, PSIKE
Joined: October 31 2006
Location: Italy
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Posted: January 18 2013 at 10:57 |
It's the word "opera". Have you ever seen one? It's a theathrical performance with actors-singers playing their parts. Jesus Christ Superstar is an opera, Tommy is not. The Human Equation may be.
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I stand with Roger Waters, I stand with Joan Baez, I stand with Victor Jara, I stand with Woody Guthrie. Music is revolution
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octopus-4
Special Collaborator
RIO/Avant & Zeuhl, Neo, Post/Math, PSIKE
Joined: October 31 2006
Location: Italy
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Points: 15044
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Posted: January 18 2013 at 11:03 |
Snow Dog wrote:
silverpot wrote:
Please help me out here, what's the difference between a concept album and a rock opera? Both tell a story, what is needed to make the difference?
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An opera has a libretto. The story is told through characters singing the story. Concept albums don't do this. The story is most often through narrative. The concept can also be much looser that an opera which shgould have a clearer storyline. |
Thanks, you have explained the concept better (and pressed enter just a while before me) 
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I stand with Roger Waters, I stand with Joan Baez, I stand with Victor Jara, I stand with Woody Guthrie. Music is revolution
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akaBona
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 15 2010
Location: Finland
Status: Offline
Points: 2082
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Posted: January 18 2013 at 17:16 |
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this was an easy one - Tales
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Dayvenkirq
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Joined: May 25 2011
Location: Los Angeles, CA
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Points: 10970
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Posted: January 18 2013 at 17:21 |
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There's someone ... to tell you ... a course towards the universal sea-ea-ea-easo-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-on.
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Progosopher
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Joined: May 12 2009
Location: Coolwood
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Points: 6499
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Posted: January 18 2013 at 19:14 |
Snow Dog wrote:
silverpot wrote:
Please help me out here, what's the difference between a concept album and a rock opera? Both tell a story, what is needed to make the difference? |
An opera has a libretto. The story is told through characters singing the story. Concept albums don't do this. The story is most often through narrative. The concept can also be much looser that an opera which shgould have a clearer storyline. |
Good definition - something we don't always get around here. The Lamb seems to blur the distinction, though, since there is a narrative but it is only told through one character's voice - Rael.
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The world of sound is certainly capable of infinite variety and, were our sense developed, of infinite extensions. -- George Santayana, "The Sense of Beauty"
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Hercules
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 14 2007
Location: Near York UK
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Points: 7024
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Posted: January 18 2013 at 19:30 |
Subterranea easily, with The Lamb a very respectable 2nd.
Brave is also good; so is The Ayreon album and the Wall is OK.
Tales is a crock of self indulgent crap.
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A TVR is not a car. It's a way of life.
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Slaughternalia
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Joined: February 17 2011
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Points: 901
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Posted: January 18 2013 at 19:32 |
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The lamb. the others I've either never heard, or mark the point in the band's career where their egos have grown enormous and they've been doing way too many drugs
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I'm so mad that you enjoy a certain combination of noises that I don't
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The Dark Elf
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Posted: January 18 2013 at 20:30 |
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I don't think any of these albums measures up to The Who's Quadrophenia as far as a "double concept album", but then the discussion digresses into circumlocutious arguments about what is and isn't prog. If Quadrophenia isn't prog, then neither is The Wall, and I would question the progressiveness of The Lamb as well.
As far as the list, I would say The Wall is the best executed double concept album here. As far as The Lamb, I am sorry, but it has one record of splendid music and intriguing lyrics, and one record of indecipherable mythological mush. They should have stopped half way and called it a day.
Edited by The Dark Elf - January 21 2013 at 22:54
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...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined
to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology...
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Metalmarsh89
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Joined: January 15 2013
Location: Oregon, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 2673
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Posted: January 19 2013 at 02:36 |
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As far as this list goes, I only know the Wall, though I'm familiar with Tales and the Lamb. I think I would pick Tales from Topographic Oceans, as I'm not a huge fan of the Wall.
If we're including albums not listed, I'd vote Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence by Dream Theater, as it is most definitely a double concept album.
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Snow Dog
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Joined: March 23 2005
Location: Caerdydd
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Points: 32995
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Posted: January 19 2013 at 04:01 |
Progosopher wrote:
Snow Dog wrote:
silverpot wrote:
Please help me out here, what's the difference between a concept album and a rock opera? Both tell a story, what is needed to make the difference? |
An opera has a libretto. The story is told through characters singing the story. Concept albums don't do this. The story is most often through narrative. The concept can also be much looser that an opera which shgould have a clearer storyline. |
Good definition - something we don't always get around here. The Lamb seems to blur the distinction, though, since there is a narrative but it is only told through one character's voice - Rael. |
Which is why it is a narrative. There is also descriptive lyrics from the obserevers poiint of view. Which is why it is a concept album. In A Rock Opera all the lyrics should be sung by a character so that it could be possible at least to perform the whole thing with a cast. As the do in the film Tommy in fact. Many songs by Genesis and other bands have songs that include "spoken words", but as I say. This does not make it an opera.
If you think about it, The wall is even more of a Rock Opera. Has lots of character exposition. Is there descriptive text? I can't remember.
Edited by Snow Dog - January 19 2013 at 04:15
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Snow Dog
Special Collaborator
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Joined: March 23 2005
Location: Caerdydd
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Points: 32995
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Posted: January 19 2013 at 04:03 |
Hercules wrote:
Subterranea easily, with The Lamb a very respectable 2nd.
Brave is also good; so is The Ayreon album and the Wall is OK.
Tales is a crock of self indulgent crap. |
I'm sure the same could be said of any of these choices or indeed any Prog album. A question of degrees i suppose. What is an individuals limit.
Short of it, I don't know why you'd say such an awful thing about an album. Something that was lovingly created. Dismissed in so few negative words. Sad.
Edited by Snow Dog - January 19 2013 at 04:05
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richardh
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 18 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 30728
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Posted: January 19 2013 at 04:40 |
I'll vote for Subterranea even if it is spelt wrong 
My favourite double album is Aphrodites Child - 666 ,and then Mike Oldfield - Incantations.
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silverpot
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Joined: March 19 2008
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 841
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Posted: January 19 2013 at 08:03 |
octopus-4 wrote:
Snow Dog wrote:
silverpot wrote:
Please help me out here, what's the difference between a concept album and a rock opera? Both tell a story, what is needed to make the difference?
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An opera has a libretto. The story is told through characters singing the story. Concept albums don't do this. The story is most often through narrative. The concept can also be much looser that an opera which shgould have a clearer storyline. |
Thanks, you have explained the concept better (and pressed enter just a while before me) |
Thanks to both of you. I actually was comparing Tommy with Jesus Christ Superstar and didn't find them much alike in execution. Although it's a veeery long time since I heard any of them. The Wall is something in between methinks. Waters has this idea of putting it up on Broadway and then it probably WILL be a fully fledged opera. 
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Greatest Double Concept Album
