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Earthmover 
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 Posted: January 28 2013 at 12:40 |
A Momentary Lapse of Reason is probably the worst album I have ever heard.
On topic: everyone is saying Islands is the worst 70s KC album, but it may as well be my favorite (though it's hard to rank it as the competition is made of masterpieces: Red, Starless and Bible Black, Larks' Tongues in Aspic, Lizard).
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The Doctor
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Posted: January 28 2013 at 12:45 |
^You must not have heard much music then if MLOR is the worst you've ever heard. Actually, although I find it less appealing than most of their earlier stuff, the track Sorrow is one of my favorite Floyd songs, and I also like the rest of Side 2. Side 1 is certainly no classic era Floyd, but it really isn't that bad. I think by default Islands would be my least favorite of the 70's KC output, it isn't bad for sure, although the lyrics to Ladies of the Road are simply dreadful. The title track is a beautiful piece of music however and I love Formentera Lady as well.
Edited by The Doctor - January 28 2013 at 12:46
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I can understand your anger at me, but what did the horse I rode in on ever do to you?
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octopus-4
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Posted: January 28 2013 at 12:49 |
 moshkito wrote:
octopus-4 wrote:
Big Ears wrote:
No Richard Wright = no Pink Floyd.
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I quite agree, but I wouldn't put The Final Cut and Momentary Leapse of Reason in the trash. There was already so much trash in the 80s that compared to what was around they are two masterpieces.
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I'm not sure that is fair. You are basically saying that Beethoven has to be the Beethoven that you want for ALL of his work. Or Bach. Or Stravinsky! Or Beatles ... or some chtupa band out there! You might not like the album, but because you don't like it, does not make it a valuable addition to their catalogue and amount of work that those folks did ... and I find that unfair. Pink Floyd gave us, A LOT MORE, than anyone has a right to do ... for us to love and enjoy ... and yet, we have to find one _____ng dirty dish to blow at their face, Roger's or Dick's or John's is not important. So you don't like Hamlet, and prefer Much Doggy Do About Nothing, because it is not as gory ... bur for crying out loud, it's still Shakespeare! There is no "dark side" ... it is what it is, and WHO that entity/person is ... and why is anyone NEGATING your right, or my right or anyone's right, to do what they feel they have to do and see fit? Sadly, these kinds of posts are getting worse than the drivel that was passed around in the old days of the Socialist/Dictatorship that was Portugal and Spain ... you got to see how bad it all sounds ... the minute you kill the "artist", your culture will die! AND SOON! If you don't believe me, you can search out the movie reviews that my dad had that were "censored" by the government, and the movies ... that were cut up, because some reviewers (dad included) mentioned a scene or moment. See the movie "Cinema Paradiso" so you can see a bit of it all! Stop the censorship! Loud or not! Please make room for the artist and his/her words!
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First of all welcome back, it was a while since the last time when I've noticed a post from you.
This is not what I was saying. Let me clarify:
Even if I admit that the 8th symphony is not as good as the 5th or the 9th, it's still better than most of the other things around in that period. I have rated the pros and cons with two stars only and The Wall Live in Berlin with one, but if I have to choose between the Wall in Berlin and anything from i.e. Duran Duran I choose the first.
Second point: I think that the two albums following The Wall are of a less quality respect to the others. The Final Cut is missing Wright's keyboards and even with all the effects, the olografic sound it results quite "flat" to my ears, but I still love it. Two suns in the Sunset is a great song and the sax solo which replaces Waters' scream on The Gunner's Dream is fantastic. I also like AMLOR but it's just a Gilmour solo and lacks mainly in the lyrics. It's still a good album with a bit more blues inside respect to the predecessors (Dogs of War to say one title).
Third, I have bought any PF bootleg, solo work, everything I have found as I'm a Floyd addict. I'm speaking of dark side of their discography but I'm not saying that they are poor. They have never released a "Love Beach", a "Mercy", a "We Can't Dance" or a "Camera Camera". The darkest moment in Floyd's discography is brighter than the average.
I'm Italian and I've seen Cinema Paradiso. I did my first visit to Spain just after Franco's death and I remember people still afraid of speaking about Soares. Take it easy friend, there's no censorship on this site, at least not often.
I have the ticket for The Wall on September 14th at Wembley. I'll get there with my 19th daughter.
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I stand with Roger Waters, I stand with Joan Baez, I stand with Victor Jara, I stand with Woody Guthrie. Music is revolution
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The Quiet One
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Posted: January 28 2013 at 13:11 |
mister nobody wrote:
A Momentary Lapse of Reason is probably the worst album I have ever heard.
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You forgot to add "in Pink Floyd's discography".
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HarbouringTheSoul
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Posted: January 28 2013 at 13:13 |
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moshkito, nobody here is trying to censor anybody, and I frankly find the suggestion offensive. Censorship is when you prevent people from making their voices. It's not censorship if people are simply disagreeing with each other.
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Earthmover
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Posted: January 28 2013 at 13:38 |
The Doctor wrote:
^You must not have heard much music then if MLOR is the worst you've ever heard. Actually, although I find it less appealing than most of their earlier stuff, the track Sorrow is one of my favorite Floyd songs, and I also like the rest of Side 2. Side 1 is certainly no classic era Floyd, but it really isn't that bad.
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Well, I was exaggerating a bit. :) Still, I can't stand that album except for (MAYBE) On the Turning Away.
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octopus-4
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Posted: January 28 2013 at 13:44 |
mister nobody wrote:
The Doctor wrote:
^You must not have heard much music then if MLOR is the worst you've ever heard. Actually, although I find it less appealing than most of their earlier stuff, the track Sorrow is one of my favorite Floyd songs, and I also like the rest of Side 2. Side 1 is certainly no classic era Floyd, but it really isn't that bad.
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Well, I was exaggerating a bit. :) Still, I can't stand that album except for (MAYBE) On the Turning Away. |
I think so...Surely it's not worse than this
or this
or this
Let's stop here...I have a number of albums of this kind in mind....
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I stand with Roger Waters, I stand with Joan Baez, I stand with Victor Jara, I stand with Woody Guthrie. Music is revolution
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The Doctor
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Posted: January 28 2013 at 14:34 |
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I find In the Hot Seat to be a much more dreadful ELP album than Love Beach.
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I can understand your anger at me, but what did the horse I rode in on ever do to you?
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Big Ears
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Posted: January 28 2013 at 14:38 |
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I did not mean to rain on anyone's parade, much less start a debate on the worst album etc, when I said no Rick Wright = no Pink Floyd. If you like The Final Cut and Roger Waters's solo work, good for you. I am a Rick Wright fan and just meant this is the case for me. Actually, I like Momentary Lapse, Love Beach and GTR. When Pink Floyd played The Wall live, Rick's additional keys, to link the pieces, made the performance for me. I think his Wet Dream album is very good, despite the unfortunate title, and his performance on Echoes on Dave Gilmour's Live in Gdansk brought a tear to my eye. Gilmour said he could not play Echoes without Rick Wright.
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Revolution666
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Posted: January 28 2013 at 14:40 |
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"Tales From Topographic Oceans" is one of my favorite Yes albums. That one's normally regarded as the downer of their early albums.
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Big Ears
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Posted: January 28 2013 at 14:49 |
Revolution666 wrote:
"Tales From Topographic Oceans" is one of my favorite Yes albums. That one's normally regarded as the downer of their early albums. |
It is not that much different to Fragile and Close to the Edge. If it had been edited down, it would have ranked alongside them as being amongst their best work. It is still a million miles from Yes Tor-mato Big Generator and Open Your Eyes (even if they have their moments).
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moshkito
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Posted: January 29 2013 at 10:41 |
HarbouringTheSoul wrote:
moshkito, nobody here is trying to censor anybody, and I frankly find the suggestion offensive. Censorship is when you prevent people from making their voices. It's not censorship if people are simply disagreeing with each other.
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The point was not to "censor", but there was no other word ... I said, this thread was starting to sound like ... what happened in those days! Not that it is! Back then, the media would make that person look bad, and soon, the fascist would show up at your door, and then pull a gun to the child's head ... and tell you ... you wanna write another poem? Or song? ... os say anything anymore? Obviously, here is not bad ... but you have to look at an artist's listing as its totality ... you like the 5th better than the 9th or similar, but all it tells you is that the composer is great and you still listen to it ... so saying that This Wall gets 1 mark, but That Wall gets 2 mark, and The Wall gets a different mark, is no different than the different symphonies ... it's still the same "artist" and "composer". For all intents and purposes, it's almost like we're intentionally not giving a person the right to be an artist ... that he/she deserves. Pink Floyd, Beatles and such will be the Beethovens, Bachs and such in music history in another 50 years ... but we're not capable of seeing that larger picture ... (I think) mainly because it would render a lot of things we like worthless and not good enough! And none of us wants to feel stupid and not with it, the day that happens! History will decide these things ... not you and I ... your opinion on This/That/The Wall is just like you plugging a finger into the Atlantic Ocean ... might be felt on the other side and make history someday ... and only time will tell ... and in the meantime, at least give those folks the credit they deserve.
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
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M27Barney
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Posted: January 29 2013 at 13:08 |
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Oh No! the first post mentions "Invisible Touch"..........It must be due to be locked any post soon.....
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HarbouringTheSoul
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Posted: January 29 2013 at 13:16 |
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I don't see the problem. Some people don't like some albums by artists they otherwise love. I for one dislike most of the stuff Pink Floyd have done outside the '71-'77 period. That doesn't mean I think any less of Pink Floyd as a whole, or that those albums shouldn't have been made. I accept and appreciate the band as they are, regardless of what I might think of individual parts of their legacy. I wouldn't dismiss Beethoven 5th either just because I don't like his 3rd (just an example - I have never heard the 3rd).
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M27Barney
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Posted: January 29 2013 at 13:46 |
moshkito wrote:
HarbouringTheSoul wrote:
moshkito, nobody here is trying to censor anybody, and I frankly find the suggestion offensive. Censorship is when you prevent people from making their voices. It's not censorship if people are simply disagreeing with each other.
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The point was not to "censor", but there was no other word ... I said, this thread was starting to sound like ... what happened in those days! Not that it is! Back then, the media would make that person look bad, and soon, the fascist would show up at your door, and then pull a gun to the child's head ... and tell you ... you wanna write another poem? Or song? ... os say anything anymore? Obviously, here is not bad ... but you have to look at an artist's listing as its totality ... you like the 5th better than the 9th or similar, but all it tells you is that the composer is great and you still listen to it ... so saying that This Wall gets 1 mark, but That Wall gets 2 mark, and The Wall gets a different mark, is no different than the different symphonies ... it's still the same "artist" and "composer". For all intents and purposes, it's almost like we're intentionally not giving a person the right to be an artist ... that he/she deserves. Pink Floyd, Beatles and such will be the Beethovens, Bachs and such in music history in another 50 years ... but we're not capable of seeing that larger picture ... (I think) mainly because it would render a lot of things we like worthless and not good enough! And none of us wants to feel stupid and not with it, the day that happens! History will decide these things ... not you and I ... your opinion on This/That/The Wall is just like you plugging a finger into the Atlantic Ocean ... might be felt on the other side and make history someday ... and only time will tell ... and in the meantime, at least give those folks the credit they deserve. |
I think that Comparing Beethoven to the Beatles/Floyd is a bit pointless...Beethovens work is considerably more complex in it's composition than the simplistic yet pleasing fundamentals of these two 4/4 merchants......Popularity = brilliance in todays musical currency. I disagree....
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moshkito
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Posted: January 30 2013 at 11:48 |
M27Barney wrote:
... I think that Comparing Beethoven to the Beatles/Floyd is a bit pointless...Beethovens work is considerably more complex in it's composition than the simplistic yet pleasing fundamentals of these two 4/4 merchants......Popularity = brilliance in todays musical currency. I disagree.... |
What I believe you are not seeing is that in the 20th century the music "history" and "control" was taken completely off the upper classes. As such, the history of music will change and some of these popular things will make it in the history of music ... and there is no doubt in my mind that jazz, rock and its derivatives will be a major part of music history! The discussion is not pointless ... it's just that we do not see the difference, or are capable of looking at music history, and how they used to make fun of pedestrian and street music ... which no longer happens as much, and even the professors and idiots in colleges and universities are no longer saying things like that ... and then lose their tenure for being insensitive to the multitude of students they have and the things they listen to ... since almost no one they teach music to, ever listens to anything they are talking about! The comparison is pointless in terms of the physical details of the music ... but then, that's like saying that the "progressive music" definition even comes close to making sense musically, or in its own wording, when it is taken completely out of context with the history of the time and place that helped develop it! But what you are suggesting is that Beethoven, Tchaikovsky and Stravinsky and Brahms and many others were not "popular" in their time? ... hmmm ... methinks that the comparative nature of your idea is out of kilter!
Edited by moshkito - January 30 2013 at 11:49
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com
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HemispheresOfXanadu
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Posted: January 30 2013 at 12:21 |
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If I'm not wearing headphones or can't wear headphones I'll (sometimes) listen to stuff that doesn't take as much concentration to listen to, like Tull's Crest of a Knave or Genesis' Duke. Without a doubt I prefer the more proggy output by those bands, though.
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The Doctor
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Posted: January 30 2013 at 12:32 |
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I love Crest of a Knave. And Duke for that matter. But Crest of a Knave is pretty freaking cool.
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I can understand your anger at me, but what did the horse I rode in on ever do to you?
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HemispheresOfXanadu
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Posted: February 01 2013 at 12:53 |
The Doctor wrote:
Crest of a Knave is pretty freaking cool. |
For sure! Nice to see Barre in the spotlight. But it seems strange to hear a less folky Tull. 
And most people like Duke, so it doesn't really count as the "dark side" of Genesis' discography, but it is missing Gabriel, which according to some is almost as bad as a 3rd world war would be. 
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rogerthat
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Posted: February 01 2013 at 20:58 |
I can see what Pedro is getting at: characterizing AMLOR or Division Bell, especially the second, as the dark side of Floyd's discography is a bit extreme. Nothing in those two albums really represents a great loss of musicality or expression, they still have some great solos and lovely singing by Gilmour, who was admittedly the pillar of the band by then. They simply may not offer what fans of their Waters-dominated era (like myself) would prefer but does that necessarily make it the dark side of their discography. Please understand that there are people - yes! - who consider either or both among their favourite Floyd albums. I would however like to add that there IS a dark side of the discography in some cases and to call any attempts to characterize it as censorship would be paranoid. Let's face it, there are artists who sold out or who simply ran out of creative juice for a phase...nothing disrespectful about identifying those.
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/PAlogo_v2.gif "Progarchives.com Homepage")
do you like the "dark side" of the discography?
