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The.Crimson.King
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 29 2013
Location: WA
Status: Offline
Points: 4596
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Posted: June 25 2013 at 17:45 |
Neo-Romantic wrote:
musicbandit wrote:
I can't vote here but I'd probably vote for Peter Gabriel in Genesis (I don't think he's a great singer song-writer apart from the melting face album).. Not on the list, I'd vote for Phil Collins, Roger Hodgson from Supertramp, and David Surkamp from Pavlov's Dog. Also, isn't Bob Marley probably the greatest vocalist ever?:) I've tried enjoying Van Der Graaf but I can't seem to like them. Are people who like Hamill (or Van Der....) depressed or angry because I can't find anything enjoyable in his singing at all! I also think the music is very unmelodic. Perhaps I'll change my opinion sometime and eat my words.
On a slightly different subject, I sold most of my Magma cds recently because I decided that I just wasn't enjoying them very much. The musicians are impressive but the music is generally too repetitive and not very enjoyable. I think most Magma fans say they like the music because they like to show off to people. The only studio album I've kept from them is Attak which is brilliant. I think Magma's music generally suffers from uninspired 'song'-writing.
Finally, how can anyone say that red is a five star album. Just like they're first album, it seriously suffers because of the long improvisation track. Because of this, I could only give these albums 4 stars at most.
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I'm not depressed or angry in the slightest, and they're my favorite band. The melodies are there; I honestly found them to be some of the most memorable lines from any prog group. Even after first listen, they stuck with me. Sure it's not sunshine and rainbows, but there's plenty of other music out there for that. Hammill knew what he wanted to communicate and what it would take to get that point across. I do understand it's an acquired taste though, so no judgment if you're not digging it now, or even ever. As for Red, I think it comes down to personal preference on whether or not you like Providence or not. I personally do and strongly dislike Moonchild, so it's not an issue with improvisation itself. It's just a track that's meant to be listened to atmospherically; the dark, claustrophobic mood is an exceptional compliment to the other tracks. It also is a great segue from One More Red Nightmare into Starless.
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As far as VDGG, they're definitely a unique experience and if you don't have any leanings to the extreme dark side of prog (both lyrically and musically) they can be a real downer 
I think 70's Crimso improv's could be hit or miss. When they missed...ouch, but when they hit...lightning struck! I understand why "Moonchild" is on the album and what they were trying to accomplish - and I love the song-like beginning and the semi-structured ending, but I don't find the free-improv middle to be very interesting. Besides the well-known improv's on Red & Bible Black, there's quite a few gems to be found on the original 4CD Great Deceiver box set (my favourite being the one with Fripp's great introduction, "A voyage to the centre of the cosmos, subtitled, my mate Atman").
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Hercules
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 14 2007
Location: Near York UK
Status: Offline
Points: 7024
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Posted: June 25 2013 at 17:55 |
musicbandit wrote:
I can't vote here but I'd probably vote for Peter Gabriel in Genesis (I don't think he's a great singer song-writer apart from the melting face album).. Not on the list, I'd vote for Phil Collins, Roger Hodgson from Supertramp, and David Surkamp from Pavlov's Dog. Also, isn't Bob Marley probably the greatest vocalist ever?:) I've tried enjoying Van Der Graaf but I can't seem to like them. Are people who like Hamill (or Van Der....) depressed or angry because I can't find anything enjoyable in his singing at all! I also think the music is very unmelodic. Perhaps I'll change my opinion sometime and eat my words.
On a slightly different subject, I sold most of my Magma cds recently because I decided that I just wasn't enjoying them very much. The musicians are impressive but the music is generally too repetitive and not very enjoyable. I think most Magma fans say they like the music because they like to show off to people. The only studio album I've kept from them is Attak which is brilliant. I think Magma's music generally suffers from uninspired 'song'-writing.
Finally, how can anyone say that red is a five star album. Just like they're first album, it seriously suffers because of the long improvisation track. Because of this, I could only give these albums 4 stars at most. |
Many of your views echo mine quite closely, but I think 4* for Red is somewhat generous. I think it's a 3* album, spoiled not in any way by Wetton's vocals but largely due to the guitar playing - I'm one of those who cannot see why some people revere Fripp.
Likewise, I think Magma are excellent musicians playing unenjoyable music.
But the band that is and always has been ruined by the vocals for me is VDGG. Oh, and Dream Theater.
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A TVR is not a car. It's a way of life.
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Nogbad_The_Bad
Forum & Site Admin Group
RIO/Avant/Zeuhl & Eclectic Team
Joined: March 16 2007
Location: Boston
Status: Offline
Points: 21565
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Posted: June 25 2013 at 19:49 |
musicbandit wrote:
On a slightly different subject, I sold most of my Magma cds recently because I decided that I just wasn't enjoying them very much. The musicians are impressive but the music is generally too repetitive and not very enjoyable. I think most Magma fans say they like the music because they like to show off to people. |
Dear God, people do have different tastes, if I was listening to Magma to impress people that would be a bizarre approach, who exactly am I impressing?
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Ian
Host of the Post-Avant Jazzcore Happy Hour on Progrock.com
https://podcasts.progrock.com/post-avant-jazzcore-happy-hour/
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progbethyname
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 30 2012
Location: HiFi Headmania
Status: Offline
Points: 7887
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Posted: June 25 2013 at 21:23 |
Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:
musicbandit wrote:
On a slightly different subject, I sold most of my Magma cds recently because I decided that I just wasn't enjoying them very much. The musicians are impressive but the music is generally too repetitive and not very enjoyable. I think most Magma fans say they like the music because they like to show off to people. |
Dear God, people do have different tastes, if I was listening to Magma to impress people that would be a bizarre approach, who exactly am I impressing? |
Your lord and Saviour Jesus Christ??
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Gimmie my headphones now!!! 🎧🤣
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Nogbad_The_Bad
Forum & Site Admin Group
RIO/Avant/Zeuhl & Eclectic Team
Joined: March 16 2007
Location: Boston
Status: Offline
Points: 21565
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Posted: June 25 2013 at 21:40 |
Er no  I do like the whole 'I don't like it so anyone else listening to it must just be showing off' argument, does he have any idea what a colossal waste of time that would be for bugger all effect?
Edited by Nogbad_The_Bad - June 25 2013 at 21:42
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Ian
Host of the Post-Avant Jazzcore Happy Hour on Progrock.com
https://podcasts.progrock.com/post-avant-jazzcore-happy-hour/
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HackettFan
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 20 2012
Location: Oklahoma
Status: Offline
Points: 7951
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Posted: June 25 2013 at 23:13 |
Peter Gabriel got my vote.
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bucka001
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 16 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 864
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Posted: June 26 2013 at 05:55 |
musicbandit wrote:
I can't vote here but I'd probably vote for Peter Gabriel in Genesis (I don't think he's a great singer song-writer apart from the melting face album).. Not on the list, I'd vote for Phil Collins, Roger Hodgson from Supertramp, and David Surkamp from Pavlov's Dog. Also, isn't Bob Marley probably the greatest vocalist ever?:) I've tried enjoying Van Der Graaf but I can't seem to like them. Are people who like Hamill (or Van Der....) depressed or angry because I can't find anything enjoyable in his singing at all! I also think the music is very unmelodic. Perhaps I'll change my opinion sometime and eat my words.
On a slightly different subject, I sold most of my Magma cds recently because I decided that I just wasn't enjoying them very much. The musicians are impressive but the music is generally too repetitive and not very enjoyable. I think most Magma fans say they like the music because they like to show off to people. The only studio album I've kept from them is Attak which is brilliant. I think Magma's music generally suffers from uninspired 'song'-writing.
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Hammill's voice is definitely an acquired taste, but once it clicks (if it ever does) it's perfect. If you haven't totally given up on VdGG/PH, I'd try the earlier albums (The Least, H to He, Foolsmate) when his voice was smoother and possibly more palatable, before the harsh rawness that appeared shortly after and turns some people off. I love Magma, but I can't deny what you're saying when you speak of the repetitiveness! It works for me, but I can see where some people might not like it. Two things for sure, though: Magma fans aren't into them because we like to show off to people (I just like the music); and it might sound like "uninspired 'song' writing" to you, but keep in mind that in most cases it's just not the standard "song" structure that they're going for. There's very little "verse, chorus, verse, chorus, bridge, verse, chorus, fade" structure in their music and there's not meant to be. But, yeah, another band that I wouldn't play for certain friends of mine because I know they'd call it an early night ("Oh... yeah... I just remembered I have to do something tomorrow, gotta split [MDK playing in background])."
Edited by bucka001 - June 26 2013 at 06:07
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jc
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Rando
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 08 2006
Location: Bay Area
Status: Offline
Points: 472
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Posted: June 26 2013 at 11:17 |
Neelus wrote:
Could have been more extensive, but there you go...
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Peter Gabriel, but Phil Collins still should have been included in the list despite all the Collins-haters out there. Trick Of The Tail, Wind & Wuthering, and then covering the rest of the repertoire on stage wasn't too shabby. I'd say.
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- Music is Life, that's why our hearts have beats -
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Gerinski
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 10 2010
Location: Barcelona Spain
Status: Offline
Points: 5160
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Posted: June 26 2013 at 13:51 |
Another vote for Lake. I didn't notice anybody mentioning Fish? and if we move to the fringes, Freddy Mercury or Roger Daltrey?
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Neelus
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 19 2012
Status: Offline
Points: 346
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Posted: June 26 2013 at 15:15 |
Gerinski wrote:
Another vote for Lake.I didn't notice anybody mentioning Fish? and if we move to the fringes, Freddy Mercury or Roger Daltrey? |
Freddy Mercury was a great voice and a frontman equalled by very few in my humble
opinion. His music not as proggy as many on my list, but a force of nature indeed. That man gave it all on stage. Fantastic artist.
Edited by Neelus - June 26 2013 at 16:20
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The.Crimson.King
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 29 2013
Location: WA
Status: Offline
Points: 4596
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Posted: June 26 2013 at 17:49 |
Neelus wrote:
Gerinski wrote:
Another vote for Lake.I didn't notice anybody mentioning Fish? and if we move to the fringes, Freddy Mercury or Roger Daltrey? |
Freddy Mercury was a great voice and a frontman equalled by very few in my humble
opinion. His music not as proggy as many on my list, but a force of nature indeed. That man gave it all on stage. Fantastic artist.
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No question there. I saw Queen in '77, '78, & '80 and no one could work a crowd like Freddie. What I think most people may not realize is that he was also a really good pianist (though Brian May has said Freddie was very self-conscious about his keyboard skills). His passing was so sad but at least they were able to get it together to record "Innuendo" before it was too late 
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RedNightmareKing
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 03 2012
Location: Colorado
Status: Offline
Points: 321
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Posted: June 26 2013 at 19:28 |
Threw my vote to Mr. Gilmour. He honestly is one of the best voices in music.
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I consider drone metal to be progressive...
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ole-the-first
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 03 2012
Location: Russia
Status: Offline
Points: 1534
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Posted: June 26 2013 at 19:45 |
Peter Hammill
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This night wounds time.
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ProgMetaller2112
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 08 2012
Location: Pacoima,CA,USA
Status: Offline
Points: 3150
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Posted: June 26 2013 at 20:38 |
Jon Anderson
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“War is peace.
Freedom is slavery.
Ignorance is strength.”
― George Orwell, Nineteen Eighty-Four
"Ignorance and Prejudice and Fear walk Hand in Hand"- Neil Peart
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dr wu23
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 22 2010
Location: Indiana
Status: Offline
Points: 20697
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Posted: June 26 2013 at 21:15 |
The.Crimson.King wrote:
.......I think 70's Crimso improv's could be hit or miss. When they missed...ouch, but when they hit...lightning struck! I understand why "Moonchild" is on the album and what they were trying to accomplish - and I love the song-like beginning and the semi-structured ending, but I don't find the free-improv middle to be very interesting. Besides the well-known improv's on Red & Bible Black, there's quite a few gems to be found on the original 4CD Great Deceiver box set (my favourite being the one with Fripp's great introduction, "A voyage to the centre of the cosmos, subtitled, my mate Atman"). |
I always wondered who did that speaking intro.....so it was Fripp then.
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One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin
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Dellinger
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: June 18 2009
Location: Mexico
Status: Offline
Points: 12846
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Posted: June 26 2013 at 21:37 |
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Fox On The Rocks
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 10 2011
Location: Toronto, Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 5012
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Posted: June 26 2013 at 23:12 |
Hamill will always be one of my favourite singers ever. I just love that raw energy and dynamic in his voice, liked much more in the later years though when in deepened. Never get tired of hearing it. Cedric would be my second choice, certainly my favourite band on the list. But man, his voice is something else. Weird, but great.
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Fox On The Rocks
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 10 2011
Location: Toronto, Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 5012
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Posted: June 26 2013 at 23:13 |
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infocat
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: June 10 2011
Location: Colorado, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 4671
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Posted: June 26 2013 at 23:19 |
Matthew Parmenter
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-- Frank Swarbrick Belief is not Truth.
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Fox On The Rocks
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 10 2011
Location: Toronto, Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 5012
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Posted: June 26 2013 at 23:22 |
Triceratopsoil wrote:
Needs more Damo.
I voted Ian Anderson
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Yeesss. I'd vote him for Peking O alone.
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