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Topic ClosedWhat is that to you - coherence?
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dr wu23 View Drop Down
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Points: 20696 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 04 2014 at 09:20
Originally posted by Walton Street Walton Street wrote:

I have to make this observation though - based on experience..
 
the people who are satisfied with pop - top 30 music, as a rule don't have an emotional attachment to music that lasts past their teens.
 
I know a lot of people who loved the mainstream hits as youths but have no music in their lives now.
The people I know who loved music enough to explore still listen and invest in it (emotionally and financially) as adults.
 
 
 
I agree with that...many people I know who are in their early 60's like me really don't invest any time or money into music anymore. Myself and one or two others still buy and listen to prog as well as a few other genres but most only listened to pop/classic rock in the past and radio friendly things and don't seem interested in exploring any music anymore.
 
One does nothing yet nothing is left undone.
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rogerthat View Drop Down
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Points: 9869 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 04 2014 at 09:50
Originally posted by tamijo tamijo wrote:

Originally posted by Angelo Angelo wrote:

Originally posted by Evolver Evolver wrote:

Originally posted by tamijo tamijo wrote:

"A related conundrum: which album is a greater success -- a pop album enjoyed by 1 million of the 5 million who bought it, or an underground album enjoyed by 9,000 of the 10,000 people who bought it?"

 

This seems to assume that people purchase POP music, and do that in total stupidity, and do not like what they purchase, offcourse they do, their taste in music is just different.

 
Not necessarily stupidity.  With pop, you can hear a song you might like repeatedly on the radio, or in a shopping mall, or used in a commercial.  If you like the song enough, you may buy the album it is on.  You might not like the other songs.  I worked for many years in a record/CD store at a university, and found this to be the case more than a few times. 


Extreme sold a lot of records that way after the single More than Words... and disappointed a lot of teenage girls in the process.
 
I dont belive in the "POP is crab, bought by people who dont know what they are dooing". A few will get a record because they like one song from the Radio/TV ect., and that can happen with any kind of music. But
Taylor Swift, Beyonce, Madonna, One Deriction, ect ect ect, would not be able to sell millions of albums, if their fans did not like the music. The same goes for Tyroler Muzak, Contry... People basicly like what they listen too.  

There are plenty of articles that have argued that reinforcement helps people start to like music.  Actually, you don't need articles, isn't that what we say around here, "give the album time to sink in and grow on you".  Since the target audience of a pop group may not keep patiently listening to the same song until they 'get it', they carpet bomb different sections of the media with the singles until the weight of exposure gets them to pay attention.  I find most of the Bollywood music of the 90s crap, and yet I remember the main verse of so many songs from that period as if I just heard them yesterday.  Reason being at that time, they used to be played over and over at several small shops, in the stereo systems of auto rickshaws, at wedding ceremonies and other functions, so on and so forth.  It's sad that a lot of my memory of music is actually taken up by songs I simply don't care for but that's how it is.  Ah, another example: one accidental listen of Rick Astley's Never Gonna Give You Up installed a permanent place for that song in my brain.  Cry

Having said all that, there are people who connect emotionally to pop music just as any other kind and we should not completely rule that out just because it doesn't do anything for us.  My 14 year old cousin sis absolutely loves Frozen and she reads stuff like War and Peace, so she has a mind of her own and chooses what she wants rather than being led to it.  I find Frozen to be a tired, boring rehash of the typical 90s power ballad, especially of the cringeworthy Celine Dion kind but I am not going to pretend my cousin was just duped into believing she likes Frozen.  She actually does like it.  It's just different tastes and we have to respect that.  
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Walton Street View Drop Down
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Points: 872 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 04 2014 at 09:51
Originally posted by rogerthat rogerthat wrote:

 Ah, another example: one accidental listen of Rick Astley's Never Gonna Give You Up installed a permanent place for that song in my brain.  Cry

  
 
 
you were RICK ROLLED!
"I know one thing: that I know nothing"

- SpongeBob Socrates
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Points: 9869 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 04 2014 at 09:52
No denying that, sadly.  Cry
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Points: 2839 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 04 2014 at 10:42
Coherence for me is overall flow. Does it all hang right together ? 

It's also the picture the album paints. For me, I can't listen to certain albums without being transported back to a certain time or place. Disraeli Gears, I'm around at a friends' house in the mid 70's, Dark Side, I was doing this, Space Ritual, I was doing that..... so. Does it all make sense and flow as a whole and does it paint a recognisable and memorable picture ? 

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Kati View Drop Down
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Points: 6253 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 04 2014 at 17:06
Originally posted by Smurph Smurph wrote:

Originally posted by Kati Kati wrote:

Originally posted by Smurph Smurph wrote:

I could be extremely critical of the new CS album without talking about incoherence. I feel like it all sounds too "samey" for me honestly haha


Lucky
for you, you don’t have to limit your choices. Progressive Rock boasts an
abundance of music to satisfy all of us. Listen to what makes you happy. Smile


Oh yes I agree with you :) Thats what I do. I appreciate your positive attitude.

I LOVE music that plenty of people on here find unbearable. This is life.

I was just commenting because that's part of this discussion. I don't mean to just come in and be negative :P
 
Smurph, I am not sure what you like to listen but may I suggest have a listen to this band called P.A.W.N? They too released an album this year and it's one of my top favorites, I think they absolutely brilliant and outstanding musicianship Clap 
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Kati View Drop Down
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Points: 6253 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 04 2014 at 17:07
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Points: 109 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 04 2014 at 23:31
At this point I don't think incoherence is a good criticism. I'm listening to You by gong and there is nothing coherent about it, But it is perfect. I think with Corvus stone II, I just didn't find any of the musical ideas interesting or enjoyable. This might sound unusual but I think the individual parts of an album are more important than the whole. And sounding incoherent to someone might just be due to poorly done transitions. I think the best albums stack brilliant musical ideas on top of each other in a creative and inventive way. Corvus stone II could be viewed that way, but not to me. 
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Kati View Drop Down
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Points: 6253 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 04 2014 at 23:36
Originally posted by TradeMark0 TradeMark0 wrote:

At this point I don't think incoherence is a good criticism. I'm listening to You by gong and there is nothing coherent about it, But it is perfect. I think with Corvus stone II, I just didn't find any of the musical ideas interesting or enjoyable. This might sound unusual but I think the individual parts of an album are more important than the whole. And sounding incoherent to someone might just be due to poorly done transitions. I think the best albums stack brilliant musical ideas on top of each other in a creative and inventive way. Corvus stone II could be viewed that way, but not to me. 
TradeMark0, fair enough, I believe you Smile funny thing about Corvus Stone unlike other bands, the few who do not particularly like them do constantly mention their name Wink
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Kati View Drop Down
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Points: 6253 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 04 2014 at 23:40
This band has followers and one the band members even wrote a review about P.A.W.N (a band who also released an album this year) giving them a well deserved 5 stars Tongue I see no point in negativity really.
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TradeMark0 View Drop Down
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Points: 109 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 04 2014 at 23:41
Originally posted by Kati Kati wrote:

Originally posted by TradeMark0 TradeMark0 wrote:

At this point I don't think incoherence is a good criticism. I'm listening to You by gong and there is nothing coherent about it, But it is perfect. I think with Corvus stone II, I just didn't find any of the musical ideas interesting or enjoyable. This might sound unusual but I think the individual parts of an album are more important than the whole. And sounding incoherent to someone might just be due to poorly done transitions. I think the best albums stack brilliant musical ideas on top of each other in a creative and inventive way. Corvus stone II could be viewed that way, but not to me. 
TradeMark0, fair enough, I believe you Smile funny thing about Corvus Stone unlike other bands, the few who do not particularly like them do constantly mention their name Wink

I was doing so because that was the album Angelo was referring to when he started this thread. I was also using them as an example. 
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Kati View Drop Down
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Points: 6253 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 04 2014 at 23:42
[QUOTE=TradeMark0]
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Kati View Drop Down
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Points: 6253 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 05 2014 at 00:02
there is no need for negativity in my book, for instance, I think Mostly Autum and P.A.W.N with Gift of Awereness should be and deserve to be much higher in the ranking.
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Kati View Drop Down
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Points: 6253 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 05 2014 at 00:07
this said bands should gratify and share far and wide their reviews, from who only write reviews for the love of moozik. If a band is dead weight while others are uber excited happy about any action towards them, they are lovely and well deserving too.

Edited by Kati - December 05 2014 at 00:07
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Kati View Drop Down
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Points: 6253 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 05 2014 at 00:20
this RUSH I really really like Big smileHug
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Kati View Drop Down
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Points: 6253 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 05 2014 at 00:24
bounce, bounce, happy wheeeeheeeiiiii bounce Thumbs UpApprove
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Kati View Drop Down
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Points: 6253 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 05 2014 at 01:49
Be happy! I didn't vote for you nor have you voted for me. Let it be and let's make this a very happy welcoming place for yourself and us all.


Edited by Kati - December 05 2014 at 01:59
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Kati View Drop Down
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Points: 6253 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 05 2014 at 01:58
Let us all be happy SmileHug
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terramystic View Drop Down
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Points: 781 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 09 2014 at 15:28
Originally posted by Angelo Angelo wrote:

When I asked a few people about their opinion on an album that I recently reviewed, they told me that it contained a lot of good stuff, but that it lacked coherence. My second question, to one of them, was 'coherence within, or across the tracks?'. The answer was both.

To me coherence within tracks is good developement. Especially in epics. There must be no filler, aimless wandering ...

Coherence of album has many aspects. I can enjoy a single track, compilation or a concept album. In album as awhole I like the ballance of different moods and tempos between tracks - like movements in a symphony.
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Points: 29630 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 09 2014 at 19:24
I think people who are obsessed with coherence are pretentious.
Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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