Did the Beatles really Invent Prog? Or not?

SteveG wrote: Rednight wrote: Leave It To Stever starring Jerry Blathers and Phony Dow. So, are you Blathers or Phoney? I never seem get that right.

I'm Blathers! Freak Out's the first prog? ! It was Sgt. Pepper's, according to Bruford at one of his drum clinics I attended in the '80s. As he's one-third of Crimso's Red, so there you have it.

Edited by Rednight - July 06 2015 at 17:15

SteveG wrote: emigre80 wrote: SteveG wrote: Rednight wrote: Leave It To Stever starring Jerry Blathers and Phony Dow. So, are you Blathers or Phoney? I never seem get that right.   This promises to be a fun evening. I'm going to go make the popcorn.  I did say to keep it fun, didn't I?

^ I have a Mothers bootleg from '67 Stockholm ('Tis the Season to be Jelly) and some of the material is very, very close to progressive rock, in fact it's about as prog as ItCotCK

Atavachron wrote: ^ I have a Mothers bootleg from '67 Stockholm ('Tis the Season to be Jelly) and some of the material is very, very close to progressive rock, in fact it's about as prog as ItCotCK

Svetonio wrote: Atavachron wrote: ^ I have a Mothers bootleg from '67 Stockholm ('Tis the Season to be Jelly) and some of the material is very, very close to progressive rock, in fact it's about as prog as ItCotCK

That is superb.

PrognosticMind wrote: Svetonio wrote: Atavachron wrote: ^ I have a Mothers bootleg from '67 Stockholm ('Tis the Season to be Jelly) and some of the material is very, very close to progressive rock, in fact it's about as prog as ItCotCK Epic win. Thanks for this!

Thanks to Atavachron!

Svetonio wrote: PrognosticMind wrote: Svetonio wrote: Atavachron wrote: ^ I have a Mothers bootleg from '67 Stockholm ('Tis the Season to be Jelly) and some of the material is very, very close to progressive rock, in fact it's about as prog as ItCotCK Epic win. Thanks for this! Thanks to Atavachron! Well, Frank Zappa had nothing to do with that melancholic, pastoral and moony English Symphonic rock that was born with above mentioned Strawberry Fields Forever, and which in 70s become the most popular subgenre of the progressive rock, but it's undebtedly that The Mothers of Invention was the very first progressive rock band ever.

Perhaps I should have titled this thread 'Who really invented Prog? The Beatles or Zappa?'

Edited by SteveG - July 07 2015 at 11:41

SteveG wrote: Perhaps I should have titled this thread 'Who really invented Prog? The Beatles or Zappa?'

then you would have been hammered for incorrect choices.

The Nice in 1968.

and if you hear anything of Zappa or the Beatles in Ars Longa Vita Brevis.. let me know. I've never heard a smidge of it.

This was ... the right anwer IMO as far as the talking points so far.. excellent post

The Dark Elf wrote: The Beatles' effect on rock music was profound. Yes, profound. Zappa felt compelled to offer a mirror copy of the Sgt. Pepper's album cover for We're Only In It For The Money (we only parody that which has the most influence and popularity). Brian Wilson nearly went mad trying to keep up with The Beatles. Mick Jagger and The Stones spent most of the 60s making albums in emulation of The Beatles, basically going from tree to tree and pissing on the same spots The Beatles had already left their mark.   And King Crimson have often noted their adoration of The Beatles: “The Beatles,” remarked Robert Fripp, “achieve probably better than anyone the ability to make you tap your foot first time round, dig the words sixth time round, and get into the guitar slowly panning the twentieth time”, and Bill Bruford commented, “It was felt after Sgt. Pepper anybody could do anything in music. It seemed the wilder the idea musically the better.”   So, as a proto-prog influence The Beatles were immense, but as others have commented nothing grows in a vacuum. The lyricism of Bob Dylan, the studio experimentation of The Beatles, the electrifying pyrotechnics of Hendrix, the mini-operas of The Who, the harmonies of The Beach Boys and the integration of orchestra and mellotron by The Moody Blues all were synthesized into rock within a few short eventful years, culminating in what eventually we would term prog-rock.

The Beatles indirectlly by their creativity, massive influence, and overall material success...laid the foundation by giving artists the freedom of the medium to explore oh which many in England in the late 60's ran with.

Zappa was a leading avant guarde artist.. had really very little to do with prog. Of course we have embraced him..as we have the music of RIO-AVANT...ut don't confuse him with prog. He wasn't...




Edited by micky - July 07 2015 at 12:38

  I think there is no doubt that psychedelic rock was the predecessor of progressive rock, i mean you can clearly hear some progressive elements in mid 60's bands... Now I think that saying that SFF was the first prog song (or album) is farfetched. The Beatles were a classic psychedelic-pop band, maybe too classic.. don't get me wrong, i like the Beatles, who doesn't? but i couldn't say that they have anything to do with prog.. SFF is maybe a little bit different from ohter Beatles songs as they wrote it in the psychedelic-colours-drugs etcetera era. Nevertheless it's just another Beatles song.
   It's too difficult to say with precision who wrote the first prog song or album.. most say it was Zappas Freak out! but Strawberry Alarm Clock who formed in 1966 (same year as Freak out!) have a lot more prog elements (for me). The same goes for The 13th floor elevators who existed before Freak Out!
  Anyway.. i think most of you would agree that finding the actual prog birth is almost impossible... The only thing i can say for sure is GENTLE GIANT RULE. 

Svetonio wrote: Atavachron wrote: ^ I have a Mothers bootleg from '67 Stockholm ('Tis the Season to be Jelly) and some of the material is very, very close to progressive rock, in fact it's about as prog as ItCotCK