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zwordser View Drop Down
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Points: 1398 		Direct Link To This Post Topic: In and Out of the Top 100
    Posted: December 19 2016 at 13:57
In the few years I've been on this site (since about 2008), I've kept an interested eye on the top 100 album list. While albums the top 60 or so seem to stay pretty solid (with the occasional new album coming in and usually falling fast after an initial flurry of ratings), albums in the 60-200 range seem to be constantly moving around. I've found myself sort of "cheering" for certain albums to make it into the top 100 and others to fall out of the top 100 if I don't think they "belong" there. 

This thread is for people who have been on this site for a while and noticed the same as I have. Think of the 100 mark as a kind of threshold (in your mind, what albums should be included in the top 100, and which should not). Identify ONLY albums that you have noticed have crossed that 100 threshold line at least once (in either direction). For me, most of these are within about 50 spots of the 100 mark, but I guess it is conceivable that there are some outside this range that have crossed that I haven't noticed (and maybe you have). Make note if you have seen an album cross more than once. 

Make two lists from the albums you've identified: one for albums that are above the 100 mark (on the date you posted) and one for those that are below it. For each album, state if you think it should be above or below, or if you're not sure. Please do not post any albums that you have not heard.  And please no comments about how the ratings lists don't matter, blah blah blah -- I've already heard this plenty enough from some users on this site.  Ouch  ! Yes, I have some reservations about lists and ratings, but I still find it a good exercise to read, make, enjoy, (etc.) lists, if for no other reason than the fun of it. 

Here's mine (Dec 19, 2016)

Currently in the top 100:

Emerson Lake and Palmer - (original album) (#68). Yes should be in. Some time ago it was hovering around the 100 mark, but seems to be solidifying now.

Bubu - Anabelas (#81).  Yes, should be in. Pretty sure I've seen this cross more than once, but recently it has been slowly rising.

Miles Davis - Bitches Brew (#85) Not sure; great classic album, that I maybe need to listen to more. This one's been on the rise from below 100, and maybe solidifying above. 

Steve Hackett - Voyage of the Acolyte (#87).  Yes, should be in (this one I have seen cross several times).

Romantic Warrior - Return To Forever (#88). Yes, maybe a little lower, but still should be in top 100.

Bantam To Behemoth - Birds And Building (#90). Yes, should be there. I think this has crossed more than once.

Kansas - Leftoverture (#97). Yes, should be right about where it is. Also has crossed several times.

Steven Wilson - Grace for Drowning (#95). No, Shouldn't be in (pretty sure this has been below 100).

Santana - Caravanserai (#98).  No, but close. Has crossed many times.


Currently NOT in the top 100:

maudlin of the Well - Part the Second (#101) Yes, this should be in. I think it may have crossed below for the first time.

Univers Zero - Uzed (#104). No, pretty good album, but not top 100 material.

SBB - Memento Banalym Z Tryptykiem (#107) Yes, perhaps just above 100. Really good album that has been falling below a bit recently.

Queensryche - Operation Mindcrime (#110) Should get back in; it has crossed several times but recently fallen a bit.

The Soft Machine - Third (#111) Yes, would like to see this get back above 100 again. Pretty sure it has crossed more than once.

Nucleus - We'll Talk About it Later (#112) On the fence with this one. Great Album that was in for a long time, but fallen recently. 

Devin Townsend - Terria (#117) No, belongs about where it is.

Eloy - Ocean (#118) No--maybe a little higher, but not above 100. This was in a while back, I think.

The Mars Volta - De-Loused in the Comatorium (#121). Yes, should be in top 100.  Hasn't this one been considered a classic album? But for some reason has fallen quite a bit in the last few months.

Le Orme - Uomo Di Pezza (#123). Maybe a little higher, but not top 100. Was in for years, but fallen recently.

Big Big Train - English Electric Part I (#124). Ok, probably not quite top 100 material, but still like to see this a little higher.

Peter Gabriel - Melt (#126) Ok where it is; pretty sure this was above 100 a few years ago.

Henry Cow - Western Culture (#129) ditto the comment above.

Ayreon - The Human Equation (#133) Well placed where it is. Was in top 100 maybe 3-4 years ago.

Haken - The Mountain (#152) Maybe a little higher, but not top 100.  This one stayed up there for a while when it came out, but fell a few weeks after.

Discipline - To Shatter All Accord (#148) Love this album, but not sure it is top 100--maybe. It was in for quite a while, but tumbled in the last couple years.




































   


Edited by zwordser - December 20 2016 at 00:17
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Points: 8615 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 19 2016 at 20:05
Great idea for a thread as I, too, have watched the 60-140 range with similar consternation and frustration over about the same length of time (joined in January or '08). Here's my input:

Currently in the top 100:

Emerson Lake and Palmer - (original album) (#68). Yes should be in. A definite iconic classic that deserves recognition despite its weak points and wear over time.

Bubu - Anabelas (#81).  On the fence here. I appreciate this album but it has never won me over.

Miles Davis - Bitches Brew (#85) Okay. A great classic album that had a lot to do with moving progressive rock forward. Deserves recognition.

Steve Hackett - Voyage of the Acolyte (#87).  No. Nice album but not one of the iconic albums of progressive rock, IMHO.

Romantic Warrior - Return To Forever (#88). Yes.

Bantam To Behemoth - Birds And Building (#90). No way. One of the poorest sounding albums of the 21st Century (This album came out in the 21st Century?!?!? No way!) Pure regurgitation of old ideas and sounds.

Kansas - Leftoverture (#97). No. Never liked this album when it came out, my opinion has never changed. (And I have given their music a full reconsideration in the past five years.) Kansas music is inaccessible and boring.

Steven Wilson - Grace for Drowning (#95). No, Shouldn't be in. Great performances and constructions but nothing that makes me want to come back.

Santana - Caravanserai (#98).  YES! Higher! Beautiful music with great performances and not a bad song on the album.


Currently NOT in the top 100:

maudlin of the Well - Part the Second (#101) Yes, this should be in. One of the best representations of the modern progress of progressive rock music.

Univers Zero - Uzed (#104). Yes. Ground breaking and timeless.

SBB - Memento Banalym Z Tryptykiem (#107) Yes, though I can see why it might land just above 100. Similar to reasons of Soft Machine Third.

Queensryche - Operation Mindcrime (#110) Who? (no.)

The Soft Machine - Third (#111) No. A great if inconsistent and choppy (double) album that really isn't as iconic as people give credit. 

Nucleus - We'll Talk About it Later (#112) Perhaps. An incredible album that nobody has ever heard or heard of (even in back the day).

Devin Townsend - Terria (#117) No, belongs lower.

Eloy - Ocean (#118) No. Eloy music has never impressed me much (though I own six or seven of their albums) except as derivative.

The Mars Volta - De-Loused in the Comatorium (#121). Yes, should be in top 100. Another shining example of the best of what the 21st Century has produced.
 
Le Orme - Uomo Di Pezza (#123). Nope.

Big Big Train - English Electric Part I (#124). Ok, probably not quite top 100 material, but still like to see this a little higher.

Peter Gabriel - Melt (#126) Ok where it is; pretty sure this was above 100 a few years ago.

Henry Cow - Western Culture (#129) ditto the comment above (though I do think it deserves more credit/recognition).

Ayreon - The Human Equation (#133) Well placed where it is. Was in top 100 maybe 3-4 years ago.

Haken - The Mountain (#152) Fine where it is. To me, Haken music is proficient and dynamic but, ultimately, unmemorable.

Discipline - To Shatter All Accord (#148) Good where it is.

Albums of my own addition:

Museo Rosenbach - Zarathustra (#58) I don't get it! It was criticized at the time of its release and it's not even very good!

IQ - The Road of Bones (#63) This one makes me recoil in revulsion and shame--to think that so-called music lovers and experts consider this album (is it one or two albums?!?!?) of soul-less rehashing of retro-sound one of the greatest albums of all-time much less the best album of a year in which hundreds of albums were released makes me embarrassed to call myself a prog rock lover.

Edge of Sanity - Crimson (#92) Wow! and OMG! One of the single worst listening experiences I've ever had. For the second and third listens through I actually wrote down all of the dozens of 1970s and 80s "hairbands" that each two-minute section of this album shamelessly replicates. Amazing that people can even like this. Maybe cuz I'm from North America (where most of the bands copied were from). I don't know.

This was fun.


Edited by BrufordFreak - December 19 2016 at 20:07
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Points: 4671 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 19 2016 at 20:51
^EOS Crimson is awesome.  Sorry, dude.
I'll have to take a look at the current list before making further comment.
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Points: 1399 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 20 2016 at 03:07
Would agree on Soft Machine's Third  and Western Culture by Henry Cow (released in 1979 - arguably the last great, truly progressive album of the 70s while all around them were simplifying their music like mad)
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Points: 7951 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 20 2016 at 03:22
Originally posted by BrufordFreak BrufordFreak wrote:

Museo Rosenbach - Zarathustra (#58) I don't get it! It was criticized at the time of its release and it's not even very good!

Off with his head/release the hounds/mad for f**king years/me spitting drink all over table/etc!
Dude, top ten RPI disc for me, total classic, and one of the first `essentials' I always recommend to people wanting to explore the defining vintage Italian discs. Sheet, I must have listened to it hundreds of times by this point and I'm still not even slightly tired of it.
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Points: 1398 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 20 2016 at 06:47
Originally posted by BrufordFreak BrufordFreak wrote:


Albums of my own addition:

Museo Rosenbach - Zarathustra (#58) I don't get it! It was criticized at the time of its release and it's not even very good!

IQ - The Road of Bones (#63) This one makes me recoil in revulsion and shame--to think that so-called music lovers and experts consider this album (is it one or two albums?!?!?) of soul-less rehashing of retro-sound one of the greatest albums of all-time much less the best album of a year in which hundreds of albums were released makes me embarrassed to call myself a prog rock lover.


This was fun.
Yah, is fun aint it?

Much as you dislike these two , I don't think either has ever been out of the top 100, at least not that I can remember.  I haven't heard all of Road of Bones, but I definitely think Zarathustra should be in.
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Points: 15418 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 20 2016 at 09:46

In and Out of the Top 100


Sounds like a prog porn movie LOL

Yeah, i notice these things. 

 Sad when albums i like fall out (Queensryche Operation: Mindcrime)

Glad when overrated albums fall out (Nucleus We'll Talk About It Later)

Other than that i don't get too worked up over it

So much better music outside of the popular charts
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Points: 5319 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 20 2016 at 11:14
Dun was in for years but now is #105. I think it should be in.
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Points: 1398 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 20 2016 at 11:58
Originally posted by timothy leary timothy leary wrote:

Dun was in for years but now is #105. I think it should be in.

Oh yeah, forgot that Dun was in a while back, but it has been out for a long time now I think.
 Haven't heard it enough to say what i think for sure.
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Points: 5319 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 20 2016 at 12:48
^you can listen to it some more
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Points: 24439 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 20 2016 at 12:55
Originally posted by Aussie-Byrd-Brother Aussie-Byrd-Brother wrote:

Originally posted by BrufordFreak BrufordFreak wrote:

Museo Rosenbach - Zarathustra (#58) I don't get it! It was criticized at the time of its release and it's not even very good!

Off with his head/release the hounds/mad for f**king years/me spitting drink all over table/etc!
Dude, top ten RPI disc for me, total classic, and one of the first `essentials' I always recommend to people wanting to explore the defining vintage Italian discs. Sheet, I must have listened to it hundreds of times by this point and I'm still not even slightly tired of it.


Zarathustra was criticized for reasons that have nothing to do with music. In the early Seventies, even the vaguest references to Fascism were not particularly welcome in Italy, although the band itself was not politicized. If you don't like it, fine - I happen not to like a lot of stuff that others praise to high heaven. However, it is always a good idea to get one's facts straight.

As to the topic at hand, I hardly ever look at the Top 100. Being based on the votes of PA users - who are a rather diverse crowd - it is not meant to make everyone happy, and surely doesn't reflect my own tastes. On the other hand, I don't lose sleep if some of my favourite albums are not in the Top 100. I will keep listening to them in any case.
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Edited by Raff - December 20 2016 at 13:01
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Points: 5319 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 20 2016 at 13:25
I think this is a great topic to discuss
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Points: 46843 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 20 2016 at 14:58
Originally posted by BrufordFreak BrufordFreak wrote:



IQ - The Road of Bones (#63) This one makes me recoil in revulsion and shame--to think that so-called music lovers and experts consider this album (is it one or two albums?!?!?) of soul-less rehashing of retro-sound one of the greatest albums of all-time much less the best album of a year in which hundreds of albums were released makes me embarrassed to call myself a prog rock lover.


This was fun.


LOL awesome Drew.. simply awesome man. Nice to see some life like we had back in the day. Too much live and let live these days.   Call it like it is....  many here have sh*t for tastes LOL

take some advice from Doctor Mick....  life is much easier if you detox from being a 'prog fan'. Like anything there is great stuff, and pure crap.  Just take the good stuff.. forget the rest. Like that sh*t sandwich of an album that a bunch of fanboys elevated to the point of making the top 100 list a laughing stock.....LOLThumbs Up

which I guess sums up my feelings about that list. It is great for the kiddies and newbies but again sort of is a pandoras box...  half that list is not half as good as many of the albums sitting much further down the list.  See what the site has done to the new generation of prog fans.. corrupted them... poisoned their minds..

hah...




Edited by micky - December 20 2016 at 14:58
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Points: 5319 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 20 2016 at 16:50
The site has not done anything. How has it corrupted anyone?
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Points: 7951 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 20 2016 at 17:47
I don't dislike `Road of Bones' to the extent that Micky and Freak do, nor do I think it deserves to be in the Top 100, but there's one thing I always think about when that album is brought up...Dave Guldbamsen once mentioned that he feels the band has essentially been sticking to the formula and re-making their album `Ever'...well, ever since they released it ('93 if I recall)! Pretty much nails it in my opinion.
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Points: 1774 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 20 2016 at 19:39
I've looked at it several times since first visiting the site purely out of curiosity, so here's what I remember. Also I'm only commenting on the albums I know.

Albums currently in the top 100:

Return to Forever - Romantic Warrior (#87): It's a pretty good album, and I can understand it being in the top 100. I wouldn't be phased either way.

Steven Wilson - Grace For Drowning (#95): Overrated, get it outta there! Even casting aside my dislike, I don't think any of his albums should be in the top 100. Yeah, it's his only album that I can call kind of progressive, but I can't say it's a defining album.

Kansas - Leftoverture (#97): I really like it, but I'm not sure if it should be in the top 100. If this was a general rock site I'd say yeah definitely, but I've never understood what was so unique and progressive about Kansas.

Santana - Caravanserai (#98): Yes, should be higher! An amazing album, it's one of those albums that takes the listener on a journey through a mood and place set by the music itself.

Opeth - Pale Communion (#100): No, certainly not. It's a decent album, but it's nothing that's new or defines the progression of rock music. 

Currently not in the top 100:

Kayo Dot - Choirs of the Eye (#108): Ugh, I hate this album. It just feels like a clutter of ideas without any cohesion. I'd love it if it was nowhere near the top 100.

Queensrcyhe - Operation: Mindcrime (#109): Deserves to be back in the top 100, although I prefer Rage for Order. Great concept album that defines progressive power metal.

Death - Symbolic (#110): Should be very high in the top 100, defining death metal album with some of the best lyrics out there. 

Devin Townsend - Terria (#117): Pretty good album, I feel similar to this as I do the Return to Forever album. I wouldn't be phased either way.

Eloy - Ocean (#118): Deserves to be back in the top 100, even though it's not my favorite Eloy album. Great album with a great atmosphere.


Edited by Pastmaster - January 08 2017 at 17:01
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Points: 15418 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 20 2016 at 20:46
Originally posted by timothy leary timothy leary wrote:

Dun was in for years but now is #105. I think it should be in.

DUN should be in the top 10. DUN rules ! ! !
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Points: 46843 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 21 2016 at 05:27
Originally posted by timothy leary timothy leary wrote:

The site has not done anything.


Smile I wouldn't go that far. What I have always said it has been of a missed opportunity.

The list is a glorified popularity contest. What this site has,  granted it once had a lot more that time and attrition drained away, are a lot of very knowledgeable people who just don't listen to music but can fairly evaluate it.

I had long, since teh early days of the site, advocated scraping that list, along with my primary goal, and zapping out the cursed 'ratings' with reviews and having the site craft a list of truly great and worthy albums, not flavor of the month favorites who through ratings manipulation and mass fanboyism.

Education Tim.  The site has long had one foot in the door in educating the user. I thought a list hammered out and compiled by the site would be a real boon to the site and the lack of it a real missed opportunity.


Edited by micky - December 21 2016 at 05:28
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Points: 6451 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 21 2016 at 05:40
The only albums that belong in the Top 100 are Kind Of Blue and Images & Words. It should be a Top 2.
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Points: 46843 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 21 2016 at 06:00
I'll take a stab..  Not quibling over relative rankings. Godbluff in the top 10?  Really people... expand your listening horizons... but top 100. yeah..

so going with the OP's notion... glaring inclusions, and omissions in the top 100...

starting with the obvious..

26. Miles Davis - Kind of Blue   -  Kind of obvious I'd say.. on a top 10 list of albums any music lover should not only own, but be able to load into one's personal Ipod in your mind.  No place on a list of prog albums obvously. Systematic failure there which has been discussed to death...

35. SWILSON - the bathroom outtakes - Enough said.... the poster child for style over substance. Popularity over quality. ZERO place in the top 100.

51. SWILSON - the milking the fans album -  two albums in top 50ish... yep.. see above.

63. IQ - Road of Banality - ummmm... we've already touched on that one.

69. PT - Fear of a planet of braindead fans - setting the stage for the solo years.  In Absentia was a worthy inclusion.  This one wasn't as good as previous albums and IMO marked the point where his creative side waned and he just played to the fanboys... not a bad album. But top 100?  Serously. there are scores more albums more creative, more progressive, and simply better. But hey.. it is SWILSON so slap 5 stars on the album because we love the guy, and especially his hair. Heart

after a cigarette and a refill of my RaffCoffee..  100-200...
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