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cstack3 View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Slartibartfast Slartibartfast wrote:

UK UK ook ook Tongue Back in the day I paired this one up on a cassette with Bruford's One Of A Kind.  They pair very well.

I was very glad to have seen both bands in concert, UK on July 17, 1978 and Bruford on July 5, 1980.   Your comment is very valid!  

Bruford's band featured a former guitar student of Holdsworth, "The Amazing" John Clarke.  He truly was excellent, and I wish he had replaced Allen in UK, as there would likely have been less fireworks and the subsequent albums would have been more like the debut. 

Bill's bassist was the amazing Jeff Berlin, who isn't mentioned much on PA.  The guy was a very decent vocalist and amazing bassist!  
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UK UK ook ook Tongue Back in the day I paired this one up on a cassette with Bruford's One Of A Kind.  They pair very well.
Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Originally posted by cstack3 cstack3 wrote:

Originally posted by Grumpyprogfan Grumpyprogfan wrote:

Originally posted by cstack3 cstack3 wrote:

We all know that Allen H. was very temperamental, and the band drove him nuts for some reason.
Never heard he was temperamental, just the opposite.

Jobson and Wetton wanted Allan to play all the solos the same every night. Allan did not want to do this so he and Bill, who agreed with Allan, left the band.

Allen had a temper.  I saw him in a tiny bar in Chicago (Tuts) with his IOU project (Chad Wackerman, Jeff Berlin) and he exploded with rage at some of the electrical problems the band was having.  I can't say I blamed him, he had a very complex rig (he called it "mission control") and the hassles were disrupting him.  

Also, I had not heard about the "play the solos the same" story, but it is possible.  I know that the chemistry was far from perfect and wish UK had replaced Allen for "Danger Money," as I think their sound really needed a guitarist.

I've read Holdsworth got hot regarding having to play the same notes the same way. I don't blame him honestly. His magic is his magic. Even Bruford said he could "just tell" when Allen was tracking that Dead of Night solo that was the take he'd use. Pure magic.

My theory is the best bands will always, always have the most unstable chemistry. You get crazy sh*t short term; often better than most bands' entire catalogs...but that's it. In fact, that pattern is prevalent a lot in art. One and done, but the best of the best in the process IMHO!

"I am so prog, I listen to concept albums on shuffle." -KMac2021
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cstack3 View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Grumpyprogfan Grumpyprogfan wrote:

Originally posted by cstack3 cstack3 wrote:

We all know that Allen H. was very temperamental, and the band drove him nuts for some reason.
Never heard he was temperamental, just the opposite.

Jobson and Wetton wanted Allan to play all the solos the same every night. Allan did not want to do this so he and Bill, who agreed with Allan, left the band.

Allen had a temper.  I saw him in a tiny bar in Chicago (Tuts) with his IOU project (Chad Wackerman, Jeff Berlin) and he exploded with rage at some of the electrical problems the band was having.  I can't say I blamed him, he had a very complex rig (he called it "mission control") and the hassles were disrupting him.  

Also, I had not heard about the "play the solos the same" story, but it is possible.  I know that the chemistry was far from perfect and wish UK had replaced Allen for "Danger Money," as I think their sound really needed a guitarist.
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Hard to imagine Hendrix & Emerson would have been in the same band. The first has so great style of whatīs sounding great and the other...I believe Holdsworth would have been better choice, but then I believe I would have liked ELP at all. But thatīs would be just me, I believe there would have been many others who had been in heaven.
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Originally posted by dr wu23 dr wu23 wrote:

Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

^ So should ELP have added a guitarist? 

Would Holdsworth have been the one to go with? Might be an idea for a thread/poll Smile




Yes..they should have added Hendrix.

Wink


Yeah, I guess if that Hendrix thing had actually happened, he might have been a good fit for the band... in a different way than we ever got to know. Also, I remember reading that Emerson always wanted a keyboard driven band for ELP, but if he had wanted a guiter player, it would have been Howe, which I also think might have worked rather nicely (but I prefer he was part of Yes). But yeah, now that you mention it, Holdsworth might have been even a better choice for them.
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Originally posted by cstack3 cstack3 wrote:

We all know that Allen H. was very temperamental, and the band drove him nuts for some reason.
Never heard he was temperamental, just the opposite.

Jobson and Wetton wanted Allan to play all the solos the same every night. Allan did not want to do this so he and Bill, who agreed with Allan, left the band.
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cstack3 View Drop Down
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I love the first LP, they were all in top form.  I saw them live at the Riviera Theater in Chicago, July 17, 1978.  It was the first time I saw Holdsworth, whom I only heard a few times on some Gong LPs.  

We all know that Allen H. was very temperamental, and the band drove him nuts for some reason.  

Wetton was in top form that night, it was always amazing to watch him sing AND play bass as fast as he could!!  RIP John.   

The entire band smoked as hard as the non-stop cigarette jammed into Holdsworth's guitar neck!  You had to see that to understand!
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Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

^ So should ELP have added a guitarist? 

Would Holdsworth have been the one to go with? Might be an idea for a thread/poll Smile



Yes..they should have added Hendrix.

Wink
One does nothing yet nothing is left undone.
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Originally posted by BrufordFreak BrufordFreak wrote:

Originally posted by Frenetic Zetetic Frenetic Zetetic wrote:

One of my favorite records of all time. It's underrated IMHO because of who is involved relative to their former works, and how "late" this came out. It's a peak in that style IMHO. Prog perfection, overlooked. This is what ELP should have been for me.

In the Dead of Night is one of the most succinct, aggressive, perfectly articulated prog rock epics of all time.

I fully agree with all you wrote. 

Also, I want to add that I find all other "UK" albums to be terribly disappointing--both on their own (i.e. if the UK album never existed) and in comparison to the peak achievement of the debut.

I haven't even made it all the way through Danger Money. It just makes me want to listen to the debut instead LOL.
 

Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

Exceptional record.   Danger Money has a better production but the content is about equal on both.


I've yet to give this one as fair a listen!

Originally posted by wiz_d_kidd wiz_d_kidd wrote:

Originally posted by Frenetic Zetetic Frenetic Zetetic wrote:

... What club, out of curiosity? Paradise lounge?
 

Jeez, man! That was 40 years ago! Sorry, I cannot remember...

SO YOU'RE LYING THEN!!! LOLWink

I'm just joking. I love the area and know it very well, hence my fan boi ism. It was probably a club that was finished before I came around in '88! Tongue

"I am so prog, I listen to concept albums on shuffle." -KMac2021
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^ So should ELP have added a guitarist? 

Would Holdsworth have been the one to go with? Might be an idea for a thread/poll Smile
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Originally posted by Frenetic Zetetic Frenetic Zetetic wrote:

One of my favorite records of all time. It's underrated IMHO because of who is involved relative to their former works, and how "late" this came out. It's a peak in that style IMHO. Prog perfection, overlooked. This is what ELP should have been for me.

In the Dead of Night is one of the most succinct, aggressive, perfectly articulated prog rock epics of all time.

I fully agree with all you wrote. 

Also, I want to add that I find all other "UK" albums to be terribly disappointing--both on their own (i.e. if the UK album never existed) and in comparison to the peak achievement of the debut.
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Originally posted by Frenetic Zetetic Frenetic Zetetic wrote:

... What club, out of curiosity? Paradise lounge?


Jeez, man! That was 40 years ago! Sorry, I cannot remember...
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Originally posted by wiz_d_kidd wiz_d_kidd wrote:

I like both albums, but the first is my favorite -- mainly because I got to see them play it live in a small club in Boston. I sat a high-top table, adjacent to the left side of the stage, right over the left shoulder of Holdsworth. I had the opportunity to chat with him during pauses -- mainly to light his cigarettes.  I'd light it, he'd take a drag or two, then wedge it between the neck and strings of his guitar where it burned completely down while he played. We repeated the ritual several times throughout the set. He thanked me afterwards.
Sounds awesome. I saw Allan several times when he went solo. IOU tour in the 80's. After the show he would have a beer or two at the bar and hang with the fans. He was very humble and never was happy with his performance.
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Exceptional record.   Danger Money has a better production but the content is about equal on both.
"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy
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Originally posted by wiz_d_kidd wiz_d_kidd wrote:

I like both albums, but the first is my favorite -- mainly because I got to see them play it live in a small club in Boston. I sat a high-top table, adjacent to the left side of the stage, right over the left shoulder of Holdsworth. I had the opportunity to chat with him during pauses -- mainly to light his cigarettes.  I'd light it, he'd take a drag or two, then wedge it between the neck and strings of his guitar where it burned completely down while he played. We repeated the ritual several times throughout the set. He thanked me afterwards.

I'm from the Boston area, and was born a good 10 years after that debut album came out. Words cannot convey my envy for you on that evening, lol. What club, out of curiosity? Paradise lounge?

"I am so prog, I listen to concept albums on shuffle." -KMac2021
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I like both albums, but the first is my favorite -- mainly because I got to see them play it live in a small club in Boston. I sat a high-top table, adjacent to the left side of the stage, right over the left shoulder of Holdsworth. I had the opportunity to chat with him during pauses -- mainly to light his cigarettes.  I'd light it, he'd take a drag or two, then wedge it between the neck and strings of his guitar where it burned completely down while he played. We repeated the ritual several times throughout the set. He thanked me afterwards.
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Both  studio lp's are good...play them from time to time. I especially like In The Dead of Night.
Wish the original line up had done both and even a third lp.
One does nothing yet nothing is left undone.
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I just don't like the song "In the dead of night" It has a really annoying cheesy passage in it. The guy who does the Prog Rock Dock mixes has included In The Dead of Night on a few mixes and I just can't escape the song.

This bit https://youtu.be/AeXSQl56no8?t=89

No wonder prog died in '78 for a bit :S 
interests: Moon Safari, Gilgamesh, Egg, ELP, Soft Machine, Gong, Opeth (Everything pre watershed), Brighteye Brison, The Flower Kings
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Originally posted by Mortte Mortte wrote:

I think Bruford is the best drummer in the world, but on the other hand I havenīt been very interested his music outside Crimson & Yes (and that small period in Genesis) Also, I havenīt ever cared about Holdsworth.


Do yourself a favor and look into this. The rewards are great and the effort little!
Perhaps finding the happy medium is harder than we know.
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