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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cristi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 18 2020 at 07:55
Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

^ isn't avant-pop an oxymoron? 


I don't think so, most certainly not necessarily.   Avant means forward-thinking, innovative, advancing, progressive, and pop can be all of those things. There is a category of pop called experimental pop, as well as progressive pop. Now unpopular popular music is an oxymoron, but not all music that is considered to be pop under a wider usage is actually popular. It can be funny when retro bands get called Progressive Rock (i.e. regressive progressive rock), but we don't always take the progressive literally anymore, or treat the progressive in an adjectival sense. It's much the same with pop music. It can describe styles of music, certain mainstream qualities to the music, and can be described by what it is not. Described against other types of music.... Pop can encompass a huge amount of music depending upon one's usage.

A lot of Avant-Prog isn't truly avant-garde, a lot of progressive rock isn't truly progressive, and a lot of what can be considered to be pop isn't truly popular.

like I said, I don't know what pop music is anymore. 

then what is the difference between pop music and mainstream music? 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Logan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 18 2020 at 07:50
Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

^ isn't avant-pop an oxymoron? 


I don't think so, most certainly not necessarily.   Avant means forward-thinking, innovative, advancing, progressive, and pop can be all of those things. There is a category of pop called experimental pop, as well as progressive pop. Now unpopular popular music is an oxymoron, but not all music that is considered to be pop under a wider usage is actually popular. It can be funny when retro bands get called Progressive Rock (i.e. regressive progressive rock), but we don't always take the progressive literally anymore, or treat the progressive in an adjectival sense. It's much the same with pop music. It can describe styles of music, certain mainstream qualities to the music, and can be described by what it is not. Described against other types of music.... Pop can encompass a huge amount of music depending upon one's usage.

A lot of Avant-Prog isn't truly avant-garde, a lot of progressive rock isn't truly progressive, and a lot of what can be considered to be pop isn't truly popular.

Edited by Logan - April 18 2020 at 07:52
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rogerthat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 18 2020 at 07:40
Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Some of the choices here I do not see as "pop".
Therefore I officially declare I do not know what pop music is. LOL

My simple (simplistic) definition of pop is anything not driven by guitar riffs in the way we normally associate with rock (so it CAN have elements of rock and still be pop) but revolving around a catchy verse-chorus. By that definition, it could include a very wide variety of music, which pop music usually does.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cristi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 18 2020 at 07:34
^ isn't avant-pop an oxymoron? 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Logan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 18 2020 at 07:23
I counted Eels in the pop world. Indie-pop/ chamber pop/ singer-songwriter meets alternative rock.

I'm not interested in the really commercial vanilla pop music generally. I much prefer art pop, types of chamber pop, avant pop, kinds of psychedelic and folk pop, progressive pop and other types of pop. There is so much diversity when one explores beyond vanilla, banal, commercial pop (the typical chart topping hits)

I didn't know Hedningarna or Sorten Muld, but I'd count that music you posted as pop surely (pop of the folktronica/ trip hop ilk). I really liked that song you embedded the video for, thanks. :)

Edited by Logan - April 18 2020 at 07:24
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Anders Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 18 2020 at 06:54
It depends on how you define pop. If it is something purely commercial which is more about making money than artistic expression, I rarely find it worth listening to. And there were a lot of horros in the 90's in that category.

But the term pop is also used in other ways, as a sort of opposite of rock, referring to something relatively "soft" and melodic. And such music can indeed be very artistic.

As for "pop" music of the 90's, I really like Björk (which is clearly not pop in the first sense, it is on a high artistic level), britpop bands such as Blur and Pulp (not Oasis!), Garbage, Eels (is that pop?)...

Other favourite artists from the 90's include Portishead (triphop), Hedningarna (Swedish/Finnish mix of folk music and electronica), Sorten Muld (Danish ditto - I guess they could be considered pop):




Edited by The Anders - April 18 2020 at 08:13
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Logan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 18 2020 at 06:41
^ Fun.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ExittheLemming Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 18 2020 at 05:24


Yes I know, Shaun Ryder and Bez were God's gift to the toilet seat but almost all of the Black Grape debut album It's Great When You're Straight was awesome. (I suspect most of the musical input was Danny Saber's?)

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Logan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 18 2020 at 05:20
Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Some of the choice here I do not see as "pop".
Therefore I officially declare I do not know what pop music is. LOL


Try to pop a balloon, record it, then sing about it.

Like I said in my original post, "So what is some pop or poppy music that you like from the 90s? Of course that can cover a huge amount of music. Use your own discretion to define what are amorphous parameters when it comes to pop genres and poppy music." This is fairly typical approach for me. I like that openness, and I like open sorts of questions that give people flexibility to approach things in their own way, and be creative thinkers in their own way.

So I meant by that that its really fuzzy, there are no defined boundaries. Amorphous meaning "without a clearly defined shape or form". But feel free to define those boundaries according to your perspective. I hasn't intended to get into deep epistemology here. I don't know anything with absolute certainty, but I'm more confident of some things than others.

It is very vague conception, it can cover a huge amount of ground and incorporate and crossover with many genres. It is something I have a particular feel for, but can't easily define. Others might have a different feel. To some they just think a sort of vanilla pop, and discount, say, various types of art pop. It's like Prog, sometimes you just feel something to be Prog, but not everyone can agree on the definition or boundaries. It's very diverse in styles. Some consider rock music to be pop music, and folk to be a kind of pop music. Poppy of course could cover a lot of what we have in PA, especially in categories such as Crossover.

I was hoping people wouldn't worry too much about how others view it, but come at this from their own perspective. It can be wide or much more limited.

For one thing, there are many subgenres of pop, which includes art pop, jazz pop, pop-rock, avant pop, baroque pop, pop-pop, chamber pop, soda pop, chanson, Arabic pop, adult contemporary, pimple pop, bubblegum pop, folk pop, pop punk, jangle punk, dadaist pop, neoclassical pop, gangster pop, singer-songwriter pop, lounge pop, synthpop, dream pop, vanilla pop, lollipop...

If there's something you like from the 90s that you think is pop, then I say go for it. This is quite the free-wheeling topic into 90s music.

EDIT: This might help. Here is the 90s pop chart at rateyourmusic: CLICK

Flaming Lips. that's one I like mentioned there. Just as prog covers much ground at PA, that chart covers a lot of ground. The more variety of pop styles one hears and the more familiar with such labels, and pop subcategories, the more I expect that conception would grow.

Edited by Logan - April 18 2020 at 05:47
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cristi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 18 2020 at 04:55
Some of the choices here I do not see as "pop".
Therefore I officially declare I do not know what pop music is. LOL


Edited by Cristi - April 18 2020 at 05:32
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rogerthat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 18 2020 at 04:51
Originally posted by Icarium Icarium wrote:

There is the interesting sounds of trip-hop also mostly of 90s origin, Massive Attack, Portishead and more And the early post-rock Tortoise, Goodspeed My Black Emperor whom saw some widespread appeal.


Yes! I forgot to mention Massive Attack and Portishead.  Also Erykah Badu.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Logan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 18 2020 at 04:34
Sorry, a few more. Turning into a very reminsicent thing for me (I loved the 90s -- the most exciting decade of my life):








Edited by Logan - April 18 2020 at 04:43
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Logan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 18 2020 at 03:38
Yep, I like that and here's a good, popular one from David Byrne from 1997.



And of a different feel:



And I can't not post this, as this is the song that got me really exploring 90s pop.



And things like this that push the boundaries of art pop song length, but not really, cause it's also loungey Indietronica:



Edited by Logan - April 18 2020 at 04:00
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Icarium Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 18 2020 at 03:30
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Logan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 18 2020 at 03:28
^^ Yeah, I really love "Sour Times". That and PJ Harvey's The River have got quite a bit of play from me over the past six months. Partially because both songs featured in this 90s dark comedy with music radio program that I have streamed many times. That got me checking out so much music.

^^ Yep, Moby I like too, things like "Everything is Wrong" and early Verve is good from what I've heard, as is Motorpsycho (though I don't know Motorpsycho as well as I probably should).

One on the periphery of pop from the 90s, but certainly was very popular is Beck.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Icarium Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 18 2020 at 03:08
One of the more interesting and eclectic artists of 90s is Moby, fron alternative rock to house music and a myriad of experiments in-between. Moby is part of the "90s sound"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mortte Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 18 2020 at 03:02
Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

^ Plenty for me to check out there, thanks David.

Originally posted by Icarium Icarium wrote:

There is the interesting sounds of trip-hop also mostly of 90s origin, Massive Attack, Portishead and more And the early post-rock Tortoise, Goodspeed My Black Emperor whom saw some widespread appeal.



Funny you mention that, I was thinking about such things when I likened that "not Japanese" Mono track, which is also a trip-hop album, to Portishead, which got me associating with post-rock. This kind of thing happens a lot. Portishead definitely has a musical relation to quite a bit of the 90s stuff I've explored and was planning to post this.



By the way, Morttementioned PJ Harvey, but I would have mentioned these very popular ones.



Really great pieces, Portishead has never been as big as P J to me, but Sour Times is one of the greatest tracks from them!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Icarium Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 18 2020 at 02:56
Motorpsycho was quite "pop" in the 90s with radio charting hits and songs that were played on radio, stil proggy but also a big dose of pop.

I also like the early the Verve albums, psychadelic and trippy rock before Silly Symphony
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Logan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 18 2020 at 02:42
^ Plenty for me to check out there, thanks David. EDIT: actually, one of those I had heard music from that I remember, Robyn Hitchcock’s Eye. I'm really big on psych folk of course. Good psych folk/ psych pop.

Originally posted by Icarium Icarium wrote:

There is the interesting sounds of trip-hop also mostly of 90s origin, Massive Attack, Portishead and more And the early post-rock Tortoise, Goodspeed My Black Emperor whom saw some widespread appeal.



Funny you mention that, I was thinking about such things when I likened that "not Japanese" Mono track, which is also a trip-hop album, to Portishead, which got me associating with post-rock. This kind of thing happens a lot. Portishead definitely has a musical relation to quite a bit of the 90s stuff I've explored and was planning to post this.



By the way, Morttementioned PJ Harvey, but I would have mentioned these very popular ones.





Edited by Logan - April 18 2020 at 03:12
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guldbamsen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 18 2020 at 02:35
Wasn’t that big on pop during the 90s but have since acquainted myself with quite a few artists and albums that really connect with me. A good portion has already been mentioned above actually.

I had a listen to Kula Shaker’s sophomore album a little while back and took a little trip down memory lane. I vividly remember spinning that sucker during high school - digging the hell out of the Indian instrumentation with tablas and sitars ornamenting their sound...which really is a nifty combo of the late 60s and the more psychedelic quarters of the “Brit-pop scene”. Peasants, Pigs & Astronauts. Very much recommended if you dig the above description.

How about the Japanese band Fishmans? I only own the album Long Season, but it is a stellar dream-pop excursion with these beautiful almost sensuous swaying synths and guitar glissandi. There’s also psychedelic element to it that I really dig.

One of my favourite XTC albums is from the 90s as well...which is rare with me. I tend to prefer artist’s earlier material rather than an album made 20 years down the line. This one though is one of the exceptions. Really playful and melodically dense. Maybe it’s also the cover, but I feel like being transported into this warm and humid jungleland of sorts every time I spin it. Apple Venus Volume 1

Straight from the 60s...it’s...The Olivia Tremor Control!!! Both Music From An Unrealised Movie Script, Dusk At Cubist Castle and Black Foliage: Animation Music Volume 1 are brilliant albums. The latter I have Steve (HolyMoly) to thank for. Baroque pop with a twist of the experimental..and that oh so elusive warmth of the hippie days.

Supergrass’ In It For The Money was one of the only popular albums I picked up on at the time of it’s release. Alright it did not experience the same kind of success as the rivalling albums from Blur and Oasis, but I think the songwriting and playing here trumps what either of those bands were capable of...maybe except for Blur’s 13...but they obviously needed vast amounts of drugs in order to make that album and almost snuffed it as a consequence. I am however very grateful for 13, which is one of my faves from the decade. Blur’s finest hour imo. Experimental, Krautrock-like in it’s motorik beats as well as in the manner it plays around with odd effects and electronics.

Lately I’ve been getting into The The. Started out with their 1980s high water mark Soul Mining and then dived further into their albums from around the same era. It’s only very recently that I started paying attention to some of their later work from the 90s, like fx Dusk. Basically art pop but with a smokey and nighttime-like aura about it that really works.

Robin Hitchcock’s Eye from 90 is also a cracker of an album. Highly recommended to fans of psychedelic folk from slightly left-field.

There are more...but my sausages need a rest.
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