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Posted: March 18 2022 at 12:32
Lewian wrote:
As Valpaiana mentions anti-fascists from the Resistance, I have in mind that Hitler was not stopped by non-violence, and neither by opponents in Germany.
Sure, Putin is not Hitler, however finding a peaceful solution on the basis of non-violence and disarmament needs to assume/trust that the other side respects non-violence rather than being encouraged to use violence against those who don't effectively defend themselves. It's hard to have that trust in Putin!
It seems Putin demands disarmament of the Ukraine (obviously without offering anything of that kind for Russia). This does not seem acceptable to me, as it essentially means that he wants to have a state of affairs that makes it easier for the Russians to invade another time (keep in mind that Putin said that the Ukraine doesn't have the right to exist as an independent nation).
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Posted: March 18 2022 at 13:29
Communique from friends in East Europe: "Russians attacked Lviv - largest city in West Ukraine, old European town and main Ukrainian center of European culture"
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Posted: March 18 2022 at 14:27
Woon Deadn wrote:
jamesbaldwin wrote:
Woon Deadn wrote:
Easy Money wrote:
^ What city are you in?
I'm not sure it is of any necessity to mention that now, honestly. Not in Kiev or Kharkiv, though. Not far from Kiev, southwards.
Hi,
It's the first time I see you.
What would you do in place of Zelenskij?
Hi, Lorenzo. It seems, I have never talked to you personally in this thread (or anywhere else, just for the record). You see, there's a martial law in Ukraine and one may be sentenced to up to 15 years in prison PLUS a total property confiscation for high treason - it naturally decreases the number of topics and the selection of words a Ukrainian may use in public conversation - even on the Net... Because, you know, the height of the potential treason is a relative thing. The height may swing up and down, depending on many criteria.
So, trying to pick the correct words, I can answer this way: Mr. Zelensky has little experience of ruling the country, he is an actor deep inside his mind. He is behaving like an actor. He probably imagines himself a character in the patriotic movie, he feels like that. He gave a speech like Chaplin's character in The Great Dictator. He loves movies, he loves classic Soviet movies. He has a charming wife. Both he and his wife are evidently educated persons, they are University graduates. What would, say, Adriano Celentano or Louis De Funes do in such a situation we're talking about? Since they were actors, they would have probably played some kind of cinematic role in the real life. The role according to what they had watched, read, played themselves before. You see, the current situation is very helpful for Mr. Zelensky's political career. Quite like all of his predecessors in Ukraine, he was seen as a prodigy at the time of elections, then since two months later and on he was continuously condemned by both sides of the political spectrum. The anti-Russian part of Ukrainian society constantly blamed him for the absence of directly anti-Russian activities, the pro-Russian part of Ukrainian voters constantly blamed him for flirting with Europe and the USA. His ratings of popularity were extremely low at best. Here, suddenly he is becoming one of the greatest heroes in the country, and beyond. The current situation is very useful for his further political career. He will definitely become the next president of Ukraine - if the country survives as a sovereign entity.
What would I do, you're asking?
First of all, I am very different from him. I have never been a big fan of his troupe's comedy show. Their humour was very far from what Monty Python did... Principally far. (I'm not even saying that their show made a few - at least, four - openly homophobic sketches, hinting at the bullying of male gays. Also, btw, in one of his sketches like ten-twelve years ago he told from the stage that Ukraine should not join NATO...)
I am a very different person. I don't think I would have ever liked the idea of participating in the Presidential elections in Ukraine as the candidate. I have never participated in them even as the voter, after all. I suppose, Mr. Zelensky is much more naive than me, much more idealistic than me. Again, I can suppose his favourite Chaplin's movie is indeed The Great Dictator - mine is Modern Times, The Great Dictator is too artificially elongated as for me, too theatrical. Mr. Zelensky is the man of theatre, by his nature, I believe. I am a real life man, man of the comedy movies. I prefer comedies only. I don't like theatre plays. I don't believe in theatre or classical music. I believe only in parody movies, speaking of cinematography.
Second, I like to tell, to explain. I would have definitely published a book or four or more - at least, in Russian - where I would have described my view of the world, and everything else. Unlike many other politicians who publish something, I would have written all those texts myself and only myself, basing it on my personal experience. I would have promoted my books, my views all over the country. Since it was written in Russian, I would have given (maybe even for free) those my works to the neighbouring countries where pretty everybody can read Russian texts. The materialist ideals are promoted by selling and consumption, the hardly-material ideals are promoted by permanent talking and reading. Whether we like Lenin or Stalin, their numerous volumes of works helped in promoting their ideals incomparably greater than one book by Hitler.
Third, I think that the man in his late 30s and on, should already have firm beliefs. I haven't observed any adamant set of emerald beliefs in Mr. Zelensky. Now as we have a war and a martial law, I certainly see them - but before that I haven't seen them in that brave man.
I believe that Mr. Zelensky was a man with really good intentions, really hoping to make his country's people's lives better. However, the country that he has got is very complex, and he was not that complex for ruling it. He hadn't got that schizophrenic, Pythonesque string inside the harp of his brains and heart along with the comprehension of the necessity to talk and write on his views constantly. He wasn't prepared for such a complex work. Now, hopefully, everything gets fine, ends nice - he is learning how to deal with it all.
Thank you very much, Woon, for your testimony, also full of references to the music, cinema and so on.
I would like to ask you other questions about how you see the future, the progress of the war, if you are in favor of Zelenskij's request for a No fly zone, with all its consequences (possibility of a world war between NATO and Russia)
or, instead, if you think it is possible to negotiate with Russia on the basis of the three official points it proposes (neutral Ukraine, recognition of Crimea as part of Russia, and recognition of the independence of the two republics of Donbass).
The Deputy Prime Minister of Ukraine, Iryna Verushchuck, a few days ago, interviewed by an Italian television channel stated that Ukraine is not willing to negotiate on any of these points, except perhaps neutrality, because Crimea and Donbass - so she said, textual words, however translated - "must be reinstated in Ukraine".
But I guess it doesn't have to be easy or safe for you to write about this matter, as you wrote before.
For what it's worth, I wish you a peaceful future as soon as possible.
Edited by jamesbaldwin - March 18 2022 at 14:31
Amos Goldberg (professor of Genocide Studies at the Hebrew University in Jerusalem): Yes, it's genocide. It's so difficult and painful to admit it, but we can no longer avoid this conclusion.
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Posted: March 18 2022 at 15:21
suitkees wrote:
Woon Deadn wrote:
You see, there's a martial law in Ukraine and one may be sentenced to up to 15 years in prison PLUS a total property confiscation for high treason...
Can you give us proof of this martial law in Ukraine, because this sounds very much like the martial law Putin decreed in Russia...?
As of now, I personally have not heard of any cases when someone was sentenced - but in any case, it is obvious that during the war the laws are getting more strict. I understand it and do not want to spoil the party for Ukraine by violating them accidentally.
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Posted: March 18 2022 at 15:26
Martial law is pretty standard procedure in a country that is undergoing the sort of relentless attack that putin has unleashed. If you want to blame someone for the martial law, the blame rests squarely on the man who is bombing innocent civilians.
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Posted: March 18 2022 at 15:33
Woon, I pulled up some of your quotes from the previous thread because I think they are important. I will explain why later. There are some other more telling quotes you made about putin, that is still to come.
Woon Deadn: "I personally do not think, believe, anticipate, expect Russia attacks Ukraine in the near future. Russia, it seems, uses the collective common West's fear of the KGB, Stalin and all that stuff. As I have already written here, the post-Stalin USSR was of course totalitarian to a big enough extent, but it was absolutely different from the Stalin era's one. The West, an average westerner still thinks of the USSR and modern day Russia in those categories. The sane former Soviet people do not think that way. I ABSOLUTELY am not afraid of any possible large-scale attacks from Russia. I find the idea (both of attack and of being afraid of it) nonsensical. I sure may be wrong - but this is how I feel about it. I see no reason to feel the other way."
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Posted: March 18 2022 at 15:48
This is the quote I was looking for. I might add that I have always had a visceral dislike for putin, he oozes evil vibes. He is probably the only person I dislike more than trump. I was bothered deeply by this quote the first time I saw it, that's why I remembered it.
Woon Deadn: "I would rather compare Putin to cinematographic James Bond, Roger Moore or Timothy Dalton era. Funny man yet a special agent (that has a right to eliminate the enemies). With everything that goes with it."
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Posted: March 18 2022 at 15:52
Easy Money wrote:
Woon, I pulled up some of your quotes from the previous thread because I think they are important. I will explain why later. There are some other more telling quotes you made about putin, that is still to come.
Woon Deadn: "I personally do not think, believe, anticipate, expect Russia attacks Ukraine in the near future. Russia, it seems, uses the collective common West's fear of the KGB, Stalin and all that stuff. As I have already written here, the post-Stalin USSR was of course totalitarian to a big enough extent, but it was absolutely different from the Stalin era's one. The West, an average westerner still thinks of the USSR and modern day Russia in those categories. The sane former Soviet people do not think that way. I ABSOLUTELY am not afraid of any possible large-scale attacks from Russia. I find the idea (both of attack and of being afraid of it) nonsensical. I sure may be wrong - but this is how I feel about it. I see no reason to feel the other way."
I still find the idea absolutely nonsensical...
As I wrote, the sane people did not think that way. How could I predict that the Russian leadership would be insane and act nonsensically?
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Posted: March 18 2022 at 15:55
suitkees wrote:
Woon Deadn wrote:
suitkees wrote:
@Woon Deadn: thanks for the reference. I think you have less to fear than if you were in Russia, in that respect...
Absolutely! Ukraine used to be a democratic country.
Why are you using passed tense?
Well, "used to be" is a word-combination not to be taken as the sequence of its components. Ukraine has a good tradition of being a democratic country.
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Posted: March 18 2022 at 15:56
Woon Deadn wrote:
Easy Money wrote:
Woon, I pulled up some of your quotes from the previous thread because I think they are important. I will explain why later. There are some other more telling quotes you made about putin, that is still to come.
Woon Deadn: "I personally do not think, believe, anticipate, expect Russia attacks Ukraine in the near future. Russia, it seems, uses the collective common West's fear of the KGB, Stalin and all that stuff. As I have already written here, the post-Stalin USSR was of course totalitarian to a big enough extent, but it was absolutely different from the Stalin era's one. The West, an average westerner still thinks of the USSR and modern day Russia in those categories. The sane former Soviet people do not think that way. I ABSOLUTELY am not afraid of any possible large-scale attacks from Russia. I find the idea (both of attack and of being afraid of it) nonsensical. I sure may be wrong - but this is how I feel about it. I see no reason to feel the other way."
I still find the idea absolutely nonsensical...
As I wrote, the sane people did not think that way. How could I predict that the Russian leadership would be insane and act nonsensically?
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Posted: March 18 2022 at 16:00
Easy Money wrote:
This is the quote I was looking for. I might add that I have always had a visceral dislike for putin, he oozes evil vibes. He is probably the only person I dislike more than trump. I was bothered deeply by this quote the first time I saw it, that's why I remembered it.
Woon Deadn: "I would rather compare Putin to cinematographic James Bond, Roger Moore or Timothy Dalton era. Funny man yet a special agent (that has a right to eliminate the enemies). With everything that goes with it."
I have always had a sort of dislike for James Bond - for it is the funny guy that kills or at least abuses lots of people whom he considers somewhat wrong. Putin may be funny. As was James Bond. With everything that goes with it...
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Posted: March 18 2022 at 16:02
Woon Deadn wrote:
Easy Money wrote:
This is the quote I was looking for. I might add that I have always had a visceral dislike for putin, he oozes evil vibes. He is probably the only person I dislike more than trump. I was bothered deeply by this quote the first time I saw it, that's why I remembered it.
Woon Deadn: "I would rather compare Putin to cinematographic James Bond, Roger Moore or Timothy Dalton era. Funny man yet a special agent (that has a right to eliminate the enemies). With everything that goes with it."
I have always had a sort of dislike for James Bond - for it is the funny guy that kills or at least abuses lots of people whom he considers somewhat wrong. Putin may be funny. As was James Bond. With everything that goes with it...
Always charming and clever, but no heart, no real substance.
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Posted: March 18 2022 at 16:04
Easy Money wrote:
Woon Deadn wrote:
Easy Money wrote:
Woon, I pulled up some of your quotes from the previous thread because I think they are important. I will explain why later. There are some other more telling quotes you made about putin, that is still to come.
Woon Deadn: "I personally do not think, believe, anticipate, expect Russia attacks Ukraine in the near future. Russia, it seems, uses the collective common West's fear of the KGB, Stalin and all that stuff. As I have already written here, the post-Stalin USSR was of course totalitarian to a big enough extent, but it was absolutely different from the Stalin era's one. The West, an average westerner still thinks of the USSR and modern day Russia in those categories. The sane former Soviet people do not think that way. I ABSOLUTELY am not afraid of any possible large-scale attacks from Russia. I find the idea (both of attack and of being afraid of it) nonsensical. I sure may be wrong - but this is how I feel about it. I see no reason to feel the other way."
I still find the idea absolutely nonsensical...
As I wrote, the sane people did not think that way. How could I predict that the Russian leadership would be insane and act nonsensically?
Very clever, you are a smooth operator for sure.
As you may see, I always tell of my personal feelings. I am not familiar with any elites. I may only tell how I feel and what I understand. The current invasion is so nonsensical and so practically unwinnable for Russia that I see no ways how a sane person could give an order for starting it.
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Posted: March 18 2022 at 16:09
I understand the frustration with Ukraine’s martial law, but what can a country do when many of its enemies are it's own citizens who are Russian sympathizers? A very tough situation.
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Posted: March 18 2022 at 16:12
Woon Deadn wrote:
Easy Money wrote:
Woon Deadn wrote:
Easy Money wrote:
Woon, I pulled up some of your quotes from the previous thread because I think they are important. I will explain why later. There are some other more telling quotes you made about putin, that is still to come.
Woon Deadn: "I personally do not think, believe, anticipate, expect Russia attacks Ukraine in the near future. Russia, it seems, uses the collective common West's fear of the KGB, Stalin and all that stuff. As I have already written here, the post-Stalin USSR was of course totalitarian to a big enough extent, but it was absolutely different from the Stalin era's one. The West, an average westerner still thinks of the USSR and modern day Russia in those categories. The sane former Soviet people do not think that way. I ABSOLUTELY am not afraid of any possible large-scale attacks from Russia. I find the idea (both of attack and of being afraid of it) nonsensical. I sure may be wrong - but this is how I feel about it. I see no reason to feel the other way."
I still find the idea absolutely nonsensical...
As I wrote, the sane people did not think that way. How could I predict that the Russian leadership would be insane and act nonsensically?
Very clever, you are a smooth operator for sure.
As you may see, I always tell of my personal feelings. I am not familiar with any elites. I may only tell how I feel and what I understand. The current invasion is so nonsensical and so practically unwinnable for Russia that I see no ways how a sane person could give an order for starting it.
Right, but what about this quote where you claim others are naive to think there will be an attack. I knew there was going to be one. You claim that those who think this is going to happen are not sane.
"The West, an average westerner still thinks of the USSR and modern day Russia in those categories. The sane former Soviet people do not think that way. I ABSOLUTELY am not afraid of any possible large-scale attacks from Russia. I find the idea (both of attack and of being afraid of it) nonsensical. I sure may be wrong - but this is how I feel about it. I see no reason to feel the other way."
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Posted: March 18 2022 at 16:13
SteveG wrote:
I understand the frustration with Ukraine’s martial law, but what can a country do when many of its enemies are it's own citizens who are Russian sympathizers? A very tough situation.
Exactly, there are most certainly people in Ukraine who side with putin.
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