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Sean Trane 
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Prog Folk Joined: April 29 2004 Location: Heart of Europe Status: Online Points: 20609 |
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 Posted: October 24 2023 at 13:16 |
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If it's not printed on paper and kept in archives, I generally don't trust it. I can maybe trust some TV channels, but not internet sites, who most likely don't keep archives. If I hear something on radio, I will have to "read" it somewhere else for me to start believing it. 1. In times of heavy war tensions, journalism tends to sleep in the extablishment's bed >> see the Cold War propaganda that all western mainstream medias relayed for decades from the 40's to the end of the 80's. It somewhat disappeared from 90 until 05. 2. I tend to trust like you, Le Monde Diplomatique (but not really the daily Le Monde), but also Le Canard Enchainé (even if I almost never read it, because too Franco-centric) and Charlie Hebdo.
Edited by Sean Trane - October 24 2023 at 13:21 |
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let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
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CosmicVibration
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Joined: February 26 2014 Location: Milky Way Status: Offline Points: 1396 |
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Posted: October 24 2023 at 11:46 |
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Some mainstream media outlets, but there are many more. CNN ABC MSNBC Fox News Huffpost The Atlantic Guardian Ironically, I viewed Fox News as the worst in BS output until
about 3 years ago and things seemed to have flipped. I still scan my iphone for news articles, which mostly
consist of the list above plus others such as Bloomburg, The Hill, Washington
Post, etc. Rumble can be a good source with folks like Matt Taibbi and
others that I can’t remember the names offhand.
There are podcasts like Dark Horse and Joe Rogan that have interesting guests. |
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omphaloskepsis
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Joined: October 19 2011 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 6897 |
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Posted: October 24 2023 at 11:39 |
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1. If it's on TV, I do not trust it. If a pattern emerges, such that an online publication like Huffpost parrots either CNN, CNBC, or FOX...I discard it as a source. I do not trust Wikipedia. Wikipedia is not allowed by Universities or any serious publication as a source. If you use Wikipedia on a college paper...you'll receive an F. I don't trust any media organization owned by Google, Yahoo, or partially owned by BlackRock and Vanguard. Together, BlackRock and Vanguard own:
• Eighteen percent of Fox. • Sixteen percent of CBS, and therefore also of Sixty Minutes. • Thirteen percent of Comcast, which owns NBC, MSNBC, CNBC, and the Sky media group. • Twelve percent of CNN. • Twelve percent of Disney, which owns ABC and FiveThirtyEight. • Between ten and fourteen percent of Gannett, which owns more than 250 Gannett daily newspapers plus USA Today. • Ten percent of the Sinclair local television news, which controls seventy-two percent of U.S. households’ local TV. • A large unspecified chunk of Graham Media Group, which owns Slate and Foreign Policy.
Edited by omphaloskepsis - October 25 2023 at 07:30 |
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JD
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Joined: February 07 2009 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 18446 |
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Posted: October 24 2023 at 09:54 |
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2 - My puppy's plush love toy, Moose. It's never lied to me once.
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Thank you for supporting independently produced music
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suitkees
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Joined: July 19 2020 Location: France Status: Offline Points: 9050 |
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Posted: October 24 2023 at 08:23 |
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For those of you who don't trust the "mainstream media", I have two questions: 1. What is/who are the "mainstream media" according to you? 2. What are your (more or less) trusted information sources? |
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The razamataz is a pain in the bum |
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David_D
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Joined: October 26 2010 Location: Copenhagen Status: Offline Points: 15792 |
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Posted: October 23 2023 at 08:34 |
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Your first post, beginning with "It is almost impossible to KNOW you're right about any of the big narratives of our time. ", was about the big narratives in general, and it's only that I've responded to.  |
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quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond
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MikeEnRegalia
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Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 22 2005 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 21804 |
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Posted: October 23 2023 at 08:10 |
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^ sure, there is a connection between ideologies and values. But when it comes to propaganda, it's more about truth. Propaganda is just a euphemism for lies and bullsh*t, often for the purpose of advancing an ideology or ulterior motive (profit).
So the question is: Can propaganda be used to advance an ideology, if it represents values you approve of? Or put more simply: Do the ends justify the means?
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David_D
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Joined: October 26 2010 Location: Copenhagen Status: Offline Points: 15792 |
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Posted: October 23 2023 at 07:05 |
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Ideologies are first and foremost a matter of values. So it's much about to clarify with oneself which values one consider to be the most important, and then try to support those ideologies which best correspond to those values. And as Cindy says, it's OK to be wrong...or it's better to be wrong than not to take any stance at all.
Edited by David_D - October 23 2023 at 08:50 |
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quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond
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omphaloskepsis
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Joined: October 19 2011 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 6897 |
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Posted: October 22 2023 at 09:24 |
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How can you be certain? You can't be 100% certain. However, you can manage a certainty level above 90% in many instances. Dive deep into a logic/critical thinking/statistics/ scientific method education. Dry test your skills against hundreds of examples of empirical data. Observe where your skills falter. Adapt/Adjust. Make sure your critical thinking skills consistently agree with empirical data. For example: I'm a biologist and RN. Biologists know that bacterial and viral diseases tend to mutate into LESS virulent forms. In 2020/2021, the media scared people into thinking COVID-19 would mutate into something even worse. Immediately I remembered mounds of bacterial/viral mutation empirical data. I thought, " Are decades worth of disease mutation data false, or is the media lying?" Constantly double-check your critical thinking skills. Does your logic alert you to lies, faulty data, and inconsistent logic? Put alternative explanations through your critical thinking grinder. Discard faulty explanations/hypotheses. Often, more than one explanation passes through your critical thinking shredder, relatively unscathed. Ask yourself, " Can both explanations be simultaneously true?" Sure...happens all the time. On the other hand, if the explanations are contradictory, you'll need more data to decipher the truth. As you refine your critical thinking skills, you will easily spot patterns that confused you in your younger daze. Also, you'll realize instances when you do not have enough information to decode the propaganda. You'll think, " I'm missing something." Wait for it. Usually, an obvious solution will reveal itself. You just need to wait for a few more cards to be played. If you studied the scientific method and stats, you can make predictions and apply statistical tests to measure the correlations. Empirical data suggests a correlation. Cause and effect are more difficult to prove, but you can at least rise above the noise and confusion and carry on like a wayward son. Don't be afraid to be wrong. It's OK to be wrong...just don't stay wrong. Treasure times when you're wrong. These are the most valuable. Why? Because you just improved your critical thinking skills by discarding faulty data for more reliable data. Edited by omphaloskepsis - October 22 2023 at 09:35 |
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David_D
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Joined: October 26 2010 Location: Copenhagen Status: Offline Points: 15792 |
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Posted: October 22 2023 at 05:08 |
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A world without ideologies would be a world of populism, selfishness and a lot of other bad things - which doesn't mean all ideologies are good.
Edited by David_D - October 22 2023 at 12:51 |
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quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond
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MikeEnRegalia
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Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 22 2005 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 21804 |
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Posted: October 21 2023 at 16:34 |
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This is the problem: If you dig just a little bit into the mainstream media news, you find lots of contradictions. I agree that none of it is trustworthy anymore, but if that is so, how can you even approach media "literacy"? Of course I know which event you are refering to, and I agree - but there are probably deeper layers of understanding that are more difficult to fathom and also more problematic in terms of ideology than just the direct debunking of the mainstream message covering it.
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MikeEnRegalia
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Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 22 2005 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 21804 |
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Posted: October 21 2023 at 16:29 |
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^ I would say that the big narratives are mostly about ideologies. All of them include facts, fake facts, correct assumptions and wrong assumptions, which makes it really hard to figure them out. Congratulations if you managed to do it, in which case I would wonder how you can be certain of it. I have put a lot of effort in the attempt, and I would say that I know a lot more about many of them than the typical person does, yet I am in no way certain that I have figured them out.
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David_D
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Joined: October 26 2010 Location: Copenhagen Status: Offline Points: 15792 |
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Posted: October 21 2023 at 06:22 |
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The big narratives are not only about facts but also about ideologies, and thus deeply sticking and complicated - which doesn't mean, they're impossible to deal with, it just needs quite a bit of effort.
Edited by David_D - October 21 2023 at 07:05 |
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quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond
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Sean Trane
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Prog Folk Joined: April 29 2004 Location: Heart of Europe Status: Online Points: 20609 |
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Posted: October 21 2023 at 04:30 |
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let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
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siLLy puPPy
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PSIKE, JRF/Canterbury, P Metal, Eclectic Joined: October 05 2013 Location: SFcaUsA Status: Offline Points: 15446 |
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Posted: October 20 2023 at 20:33 |
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Shake yer booty to the REAL Propaganda in the house! |
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 https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy |
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BrufordFreak
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Honorary Collaborator Joined: January 25 2008 Location: Wisconsin Status: Offline Points: 8626 |
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Posted: October 20 2023 at 20:09 |
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Oh! I was hoping this might be a discussion/appreciation thread for the underappreciated 1980s international pop group that worked with Trevor Horn and others. Oh well.
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Drew Fisher
https://progisaliveandwell.blogspot.com/ |
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Atavachron
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Honorary Collaborator Joined: September 30 2006 Location: Pearland Status: Online Points: 65818 |
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Posted: October 20 2023 at 16:53 |
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^ But if the perceptions are in variance, that just shows the perceptions of those individuals are at least sincere and correct to the best of that reporter's knowledge, not part of one or more scripts schemes or conspiracies, but which will certainly be incomplete and inadequate. But that's just reality. Edited by Atavachron - October 20 2023 at 17:16 |
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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy
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MikeEnRegalia
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Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 22 2005 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 21804 |
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Posted: October 20 2023 at 16:42 |
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Ok, I'll bite - about Rachel Maddow: https://www.racket.news/p/rachel-maddows-shocking-new-low Please spare me the accusation of being pro-Trump (which I'm not) - this is about propaganda, and the whole Russiagate thing was, we know by now, pure propaganda.
What you take issue with is something that is evidently true: If you look at the complete landscape of journalism you'll find people who have been working in the field, often literally (reporting from the battlefield), are well respected and quoted by major platforms, and yet arrive at polar opposite positions from one another. That MUST mean that some (or - unlikely - all) of them are either fooling themselves or intentionally misleading people. It doesn't matter what they say in particular, or which topic we look at - if they arrive at mutually exclusive positions, then they can't all be right. The unfortunate truth is that we humans are easy to fool. Those pescy emotions and biases ...
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Atavachron
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Honorary Collaborator Joined: September 30 2006 Location: Pearland Status: Online Points: 65818 |
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Posted: October 20 2023 at 16:37 |
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^ So that's one for you. There must be others... besides I don't think many people would want to tell Taibbi he's a misinforming phony to his face. |
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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy
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CosmicVibration
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Joined: February 26 2014 Location: Milky Way Status: Offline Points: 1396 |
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Posted: October 20 2023 at 16:28 |
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I would consider Matt Taibbi to be of professional quality.
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suitkees wrote:
