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MikeEnRegalia View Drop Down
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    Posted: October 28 2023 at 06:27
It seems like many of you are annoyed with me in these heated threads we have on political/societal issues. Some even said that I should not participate in these discussions. I thought a little bit about why/how these discussions go wrong. As a result I've come up with a few tips on how I think one should discuss sensitive topics in online forums. Feel free to comment!

1. Be polite. Do not insult people, no matter how strongly you disagree with them or how wrong or misleading you think their posts are. You may insult them back if they insult you first (and moderators choose to stay away), but of course not much good will come of that, since it escalates the bad behaviour. (I've often failed to resist the temptation)

1.1. Do not mock people or make fun of their arguments unless they indicate that they're not being serious about the topic either. You would not do that in real life discussions, would you?

2. Do not tell others what to say or do, or how to think. You can criticise them as much as you want, or say that you would do it differently, but you are you and they are them. Treat them as fellow human beings who are entitled to making their own decisions.

3. When you write a lengthy post, you do so at your own risk of it being ignored. Other users are under no obligation to a) read it or b) write a lengthy post themselves to address your points.

4. Similarily, when someone makes a particular point, you can ask them to elaborate, but they are under no obligation to do so. We are all here in our spare time, which may be scarce - so everybody is always free to choose how much time they would like to spend on a particular discussion. Of course you can always say that unless they provide more info, you won't accept their claim.

4.1. Do not declare yourself the "winner" of a discussion just because your "opponent" is not responding how you asked them to. The joke would be on you.

5. Whatever is being discussed, try not to take anything personally. If the topic is of a nature that is too close to you, so that you can't help getting angry or annoyed when you get confrontend with people thinking differently, it might be best to stay away from the topic altogether.


Edited by MikeEnRegalia - October 28 2023 at 06:36
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JD View Drop Down
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That's it? That's all?

Nothing about washing your hands after using the washroom or eating with your mouth closed?  Wink
Thank you for supporting independently produced music
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MikeEnRegalia View Drop Down
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Hey, this is just what I think one should do. Feel free to ignore everything I said 🙃
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moshkito View Drop Down
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Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

...
1. Be polite. 

Hi,

Kind of impossible when you got different factions, where anything said or word is an insult. Heck back in the day some 45 years ago, playing soccer with Nigerians and other Africans, was neat and they called each other "nigger" and then we all laughed together and went and got drunk after the game!

Methinks that some folks are so hogtied to their ideas they can't laugh ... 

Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

...
3. When you write a lengthy post, you do so at your own risk of it being ignored. 
...

Incorrect. In many ways, it shows the simplistic notion that 2 words are better than Sense and Sensibility, or Moby Dick, Crime and Punishment, Dune, or some other book. I always tend to think that the educational value shows up quickly ... where "length" for them is about "brick" and not value!

If you don't know, care for the difference, how the heck can you appreciate music, in its splendid history of long pieces, instead of 4 and 5 minute cuts? C'mon ... grow up and learn!

Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

...
4. Similarily, when someone makes a particular point, you can ask them to elaborate, but they are under no obligation to do so. 
...

Agreed. Although it's easy to tell when some folks reply to a post or two, that they did not bother reading it. Taking one sentence out of context of the whole post is bad English and one would have gotten knocked in school for it in my days!

Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

...
5. Whatever is being discussed, try not to take anything personally.
...

Impossible. Try that in many places around this earth ... regardless of where it is! Don't try this in a few countries around the world ... you'll regret it! 

In America, it's a different story. Folks are so tied up to the commerciality that they think the 30 second jingle is it, and the only excitement in their life is the most recent top film that opened to 100 million ..... wow ... it must be good ... with little regards to how much advertising made you think so. The next week the take is only 10 million and you know that it isn't that great ... but you already gave when you went to it ... I call it the church of giving it away for cheap excitement. 

As a writer, and published, and the son of a famous writer published in over 36 languages, there is NOTHING that can be said about posting, writing, painting, playing music that will help ... it doesn't matter, since the only important side and part of it, is your own internal feeling, and how you interpret it and bring it out. To some it's not nice. To others is fine. Heck, all forms of art had that problem during their lifetimes, including composers being lynched and abandoned, as well as writers. Heck, Henri Miller was not appreciate here in America, but he goes to France, and everyone thought he was great! 

Liking, or not liking comes with the territory. It doesn't really bother me, because if it matters to someone and they are intelligent folks they will ask and find out more ... but in some places, the ego is more important then the ID of it all ... remember ... "the father and I are one" ... and it's true, but we choose to stick to graven images, not the reality, or learning about it!

You either appreciate the human spirit, or you find excuses to hate it and bomb it ... it doesn't matter who it is! And that's the saddest truth of it all!
Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
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These tips look fine to me, but the most important is of course to keep the PA rules:
                      quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond
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I disagree with almost every point made in the OP.   

But then, of course I do.
"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy
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MikeEnRegalia View Drop Down
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^ How so? Here's the opposite of my post, just to see what that looks like: 

1. Be rude, insult people.
1.1. Make fun of people.
2. Tell others what to do.
3. When you write a lengthy post, all other participants of the discussion must read it and respond by an equally lengthy post.
4. When you ask someone to elaborate on a point, they must do so. Failure to elaborate means that you win the argument.
4.1. If the "opponent" rejects the rules you define, you win instantly
5. Whatever is being discussed, go out of your way to take it personally.

There you go ... sound more reasonable to you? Smile
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omphaloskepsis View Drop Down
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Mike's guidelines make sense to me.  
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Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

^ How so? Here's the opposite of my post, just to see what that looks like: 

1. Be rude, insult people.
1.1. Make fun of people.
2. Tell others what to do.
3. When you write a lengthy post, all other participants of the discussion must read it and respond by an equally lengthy post.
4. When you ask someone to elaborate on a point, they must do so. Failure to elaborate means that you win the argument.
4.1. If the "opponent" rejects the rules you define, you win instantly
5. Whatever is being discussed, go out of your way to take it personally.

There you go ... sound more reasonable to you? Smile


Actually the OP sounds as much a self-observation as it does advice to others.
"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy
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Atavachron View Drop Down
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But in seriousness, I don't think the guidelines you've laid out are practicably applicable, nor enforceable.   I certainly don't intend to follow them and though I have no desire to hurt someone's feelings, I also have no illusions about political debate.   

'Be polite?'  'Don't tell others what to do or think?'    I mean, isn't that the point?   As far as taking things personally, I'm not living in a war zone or a dictatorship, so if those people who are want to take something personally then they're gonna do that.
"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy
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I just choose not to go on those threads, because I already know how toxic they'll get LOL
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F the rules. FREE SPEECH!!!

Edited by Easy Money - October 28 2023 at 19:30
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These are my guidelines:

1. Put an asparagus in your ear and listen for moonquakes.
2. Eggs are allowed in the discussion. Do not put your knees or kidneys in other people's eggs.
3. Using vitamins is unfair, but you are allowed to argue from inside a hamper.
4. Spreadsheets are welcome, as well as combovers.
5. Farting is permitted, but please give at least 30 seconds advanced notice so that we can prepare for your wrath.
6. No throwing poop, unless you have gloves on.
7. When an impasse occurs, both parties must go into a field and moo for an hour at each other.
8. Rubber duckies are allowed in the bathtub. So are colanders.
9. Bring your own archipelago. 
10. You are only allowed to post a Gish gallop if you use the word "mayonnaise" in it at least 15 times.
11. Postage is due if you roll marbles through a puddle of butter.
12. You are permitted to share soup recipes only after the first posting of the words Uranus, swimsuit, or thermometer.
13. All recliners should be on a leash. If your recliner poops, you must clean up after it. Poopbags are available in the Just for Fun section of the forum.
14. You can save face by offering everyone a pretzel dipping sauce or showing off your favorite Norman Fell t-shirt.
15. Be more like cornmeal. 
16. If your argument comes in a paperback version, please share it with either teeth, walnuts, or photocopier paper.
17. Cereal maps and directions to a functioning toilet are always welcome.
18. Only share your bellybutton lint if it has been immunized.
19. Use your front mouth for talking, your side mouths for producing snow, and your rear mouth for forwarding e-mails.
20. No melching in the belchbox, please.
21. If you have a free wall, please give it to Richard Sanders.

Thank you for your cooperation. 
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This thread makes my puppy lipstick say hi.

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Originally posted by progaardvark progaardvark wrote:

These are my guidelines:
14. You can save face by showing off your favorite Norman Fell t-shirt.

Favorite?   You mean of four different shirts spanning the years 1969 thru 1977 ?   I don't think I can, they're like children to me.
"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy
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Although not related to these political discussions which I avoid like the plague (I'm not interested in reading about the context for terrorist organisations that have the stated aim of genocide for instance) but really one thing that annoys me is when comments are taken out of context. Ie taking someone else's comments and then editing them. Hate that! That's my tuppence worth.
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^ it’s not always the intention to take things out of context though, sometimes when you respond to a lengthy post you just don’t want to quote the whole thing.
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Hrychu View Drop Down
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Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

^ it’s not always the intention to take things out of context though, sometimes when you respond to a lengthy post you just don’t want to quote the whole thing.


You're dang right! Sometimes I'm too lazy to read the whole post, but there's a statement near the beginning that catches my eye and I feel an urge to respond. xD Usually this doesn't lead to any misunderstandings or me taking something out of context. Well, sometimes however, it does. :P
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Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

^ How so? Here's the opposite of my post, just to see what that looks like: 

1. Be rude, insult people.
1.1. Make fun of people.
2. Tell others what to do.
3. When you write a lengthy post, all other participants of the discussion must read it and respond by an equally lengthy post.
4. When you ask someone to elaborate on a point, they must do so. Failure to elaborate means that you win the argument.
4.1. If the "opponent" rejects the rules you define, you win instantly
5. Whatever is being discussed, go out of your way to take it personally.

There you go ... sound more reasonable to you? Smile




and yet, these counterpropositions seems to be the way things go all too often on this forum.Ouch



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Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

It seems like many of you are annoyed with me in these heated threads we have on political/societal issues. Some even said that I should not participate in these discussions. I thought a little bit about why/how these discussions go wrong. As a result I've come up with a few tips on how I think one should discuss sensitive topics in online forums. Feel free to comment!

1. Be polite. Do not insult people, no matter how strongly you disagree with them or how wrong or misleading you think their posts are. You may insult them back if they insult you first (and moderators choose to stay away), but of course not much good will come of that, since it escalates the bad behaviour. (I've often failed to resist the temptation)

1.1. Do not mock people or make fun of their arguments unless they indicate that they're not being serious about the topic either. You would not do that in real life discussions, would you?

2. Do not tell others what to say or do, or how to think. You can criticise them as much as you want, or say that you would do it differently, but you are you and they are them. Treat them as fellow human beings who are entitled to making their own decisions.

3. When you write a lengthy post, you do so at your own risk of it being ignored. Other users are under no obligation to a) read it or b) write a lengthy post themselves to address your points.

4. Similarily, when someone makes a particular point, you can ask them to elaborate, but they are under no obligation to do so. We are all here in our spare time, which may be scarce - so everybody is always free to choose how much time they would like to spend on a particular discussion. Of course you can always say that unless they provide more info, you won't accept their claim.

4.1. Do not declare yourself the "winner" of a discussion just because your "opponent" is not responding how you asked them to. The joke would be on you.

5. Whatever is being discussed, try not to take anything personally. If the topic is of a nature that is too close to you, so that you can't help getting angry or annoyed when you get confrontend with people thinking differently, it might be best to stay away from the topic altogether.
It all makes Perfect Sense to me, and Roger Waters appears to agree.  Thumbs Up



Edited by Psychedelic Paul - October 29 2023 at 05:13
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