Was Pete Sinfield essential for King Crimson?

MikeEnRegalia wrote: Moyan wrote: Grumpyprogfan wrote: For me, lyrics are the least important part of an album, that is, unless they are so corny, schmaltzy, or predictable that they ruin it. Pete was involved in four KC albums - don't feel his input was essential. Pete Sinfield was the one who first introduced King Crimson to surreal concepts. The band successfully dealt with fantastical, emotional, and occasionally storyline elements as a result of Sinflied's thoughts. No Sinfield, no early King Crimson's uncanny masterpiece(s). And that was the first stage of the rocket that launched them into orbit. Never heard of him. But your assumption is invalid. Nobody knows how KC would have developed without him, it's completely possible that they would have found their way towards "surreal concepts" anyway.

Agreed. I have known of Pete Sinfield for about as long as I have been listening to Prog Rock (45+ years). The only essential to King Crimson is Robert Fripp. That has been seen through the various iterations of King Crimson through the years. The constant has been Fripp.

I don't know if this should answer the question, but I just can't imagine ITCOTCK without that "The rusted chains of the prison moons are shattered by the Sun" kick start. After close your eyes in this world, you open them in Crimson world. If that's not essential, what is essential then?

omphaloskepsis wrote: I'm a lyrics girl.  One of my top ten, all-time lyrics songs is Sinfield/Lake/ELP's "Hallowed Be Thy Name" off of Works Vol. I.  1. The way Sinfield employs the Lord's prayer is genius and ironic.    2. The song sounds like the most ominous, darkest Disney, evil cartoon musical number ever.  That's not bad...it's good. Very visual. It's as if the Devil (the madman) is making a deal with the son and tempting him. The devil/madman takes the son to different locations, tempting the son with his kingdom. 3. The inclusion of optimist and pessimist characters energizes the song and adds a tad of comedy. I see the optimist/pessimist as the devil's right and left-hand henchmen, bumbling over each other to please their master. 4. The 11 consecutive rhymes at the end of the song put a huge exclamation point on "My favorite all-time ELP song".  Am I the only one who adores this song like a family heirloom treasure?  5.. The use of words within words is unrivaled. It's varied too. Sometimes literal and other times Sinfield uses homophones.  There may be an om in moment But there's very few folk in focus or  I give you the state of statesmen Still I don't see a man in a mansion We live in an age of cages The tale of an ape escaping You needn't be well to be wealthy But you've got to be whole to be holy

One of my GL favourites for sure. I like the stutter of "Set the place, set the time, S-S-Set the Fuse"

For all the great work he did with KC and the 'Still' lp which i am very fond of in a clunky sorta way, he is still responsible for this:

Sean Trane wrote: ... Too bad he mostly failed communicating his style to ELP and didn't succeed with PFM's English-sung albums. ...

Moyan wrote: [Pete Sinfield was unquestionably the architect behind the imaginary and magical early King Crimson concept. The others got it and executed it well, but without him and his fantastical ideas, King Crimson as such would not have existed. King Crimson, which became a platform for Fripp's primarily instrumental music-based experiments after Sinfield left, never achieved anything nearly as surreal as the first four albums. So I think Sinflield's beautiful solo album is unfairly underrated.

Moyan wrote: Grumpyprogfan wrote: For me, lyrics are the least important part of an album, that is, unless they are so corny, schmaltzy, or predictable that they ruin it. Pete was involved in four KC albums - don't feel his input was essential. Pete Sinfield was the one who first introduced King Crimson to surreal concepts. The band successfully dealt with fantastical, emotional, and occasionally storyline elements as a result of Sinflied's thoughts. No Sinfield, no early King Crimson's uncanny masterpiece(s). And that was the first stage of the rocket that launched them into orbit.

The Dark Elf wrote: omphaloskepsis wrote: dr wu23 wrote: Well he did lyrics on the first 4 yet ...Larks Tongues, Starless , and REd are exceptional lps ...so the band obviously did not need his lyrics later so no he was not essential thoiugh he certainly set the tone for the atmosphere on early lps. Agreed^ KC's early vocalists-" Haskell, Boswell"  didn't have the lyrical chops that John Wetton had.  Lake wrote decent lyrics, yet ELP employed Sinfield lyrical skills from Brain Salad Surgery through Love Beach.   Except Wetton didn't write the lyrics during his tenure with King Crimson, Richard Palmer James, one of Wetton's buds (and original guitarist for Supertramp), was the lyricist. And I think I appreciate Palmer-James' lyrics more than Sinfield's. "The Night Watch" is an outstanding bit of poetry.

Pete Sinfield as a lyricist was essential to King Crimson. If you observe how sporadic instruments are in certain songs and how the phrasing of his lyrics are fitting to that its amazing. It's amazing to me how it all came together.

Who else was doing this sort of style? Keith Reid with Procol Harum...Graham Edge in the Moody Blues..however Sinfield could be pure fantasy and its a huge difference in style.

ISLANDS....the lyrics were poetic and clearly could have been detached from the song and released as a poem ...possibly altered slightly..not too much.

INDOOR GAMES...Bizarre...disturbing? Demented? It certainly is if you follow the lyrics. Gordon Haskell's laughter at the end was accidental after he started comprehending the words and struggling to sing them and on Cirkus after singing "Bid me join the parade " he yells in frustration. All of this occurred within him because he felt like he wasn't doing a good job where ironically the laughter and the scream were perfect for the songs. ...so they left it in 😃

Greg Lake was a complete natural. He had a glorious voice and he brought Sinfield's work to life. "EPITAPH ", ITCOTCK etc...

Boz Burrell had the perfect voice for "Formentara Lady" and "Islands". Pete Sinfield was a outstanding lyricist..and of course odd at times...whimsical...bewitching. IN THE COURT OF THE CRIMSON KING is bewitching. Court, Poseidon, Lizard and Islands would never have carried that unique originality without the lyricism of Pete Sinfield. As a lyricist he made all 4 albums magical. There is in fact something magical about the first 4 albums. ..and they can be dark. They are sophisticated albums. Sinfield's work has a distinctive characteristic to it.