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Roll On Roland: Land of the Rising Sound

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moshkito View Drop Down
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    Posted: April 04 2024 at 07:48
Originally posted by MitchwithDasticks MitchwithDasticks wrote:

Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

Hi,

One of the interesting things to be noticed here, might just be how much the music at the time, was reliant on some of this equipment, and what we gently consider the sound that has been considered and became known as "progressive" ... and you can see the difference today, with new music "sounding the same" as everything else and having no "identity" that would relate it to a time and space, thus helping "define" its style and ability. 
...
Interesting article, and falls into place with a lot of others ... "I dream of Wires" is one, and there are a few other synthesizer stories, up to and including the really early experiments in the 1950's some of which was associated with Sci-Fi, thus giving it the original "space music" because it was so different that our ears could assimilate with the idea of the music being from outer space.

very interesting post, thank you

Hi,

Thx. It is something that is difficult for me to write about. I believe that the "artist" is the person behind it all, not the instrument ... which is the medium that carries the message that we have in our playing, assuming that is why we play in the first place, since there is a different message if you are simply improvising from the mixed, confusing, and sometimes bizarre notion that is carried in so much classical music, and even rock music, which has a tendency to not allow the music itself to tell the story, and make the "lyrics" be the storyteller and the rest is ... just filler, as I call it.

I think it is a neat story ... although my thoughts are that the early days of exposure to the electronic side of things in the late 50's and early 60's of last century are far more interesting and neat than the story about Roland, or Fender, BSit! It shows how an instrument was created, and how people wondered how it could be used ... which by Roland standards, was no longer an issue ... and it was mostly about supporting the up and coming rock bands, since no orchestra or classical music was bothering with it much! 

If anything, Roland, was the one that put the "clock" and the "timer" on it, since the earliest versions of the synth machines did not have a timer, or clock to work with , which allowed its music to be free, and probably more difficult for folks that were tied up to the meter and the count, which the original behemoths of synths and machines were not.

In many ways, the commercialization of the clock and the timer, is what is hurting all popular music right now ... many youngsters place their pieces here and there for us to hear, and the first thing? They are tied to a meter and a count, and have a familiar format ... none of them can relate to something a guitarist friend of mine said ... that his band might start with an A ... but it will likely end up in a Z chord!


Edited by moshkito - April 04 2024 at 07:49
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote MitchwithDasticks Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 30 2024 at 17:19
Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

Hi,

One of the interesting things to be noticed here, might just be how much the music at the time, was reliant on some of this equipment, and what we gently consider the sound that has been considered and became known as "progressive" ... and you can see the difference today, with new music "sounding the same" as everything else and having no "identity" that would relate it to a time and space, thus helping "define" its style and ability. 

By comparison, today's bands, are completely bland and boring, since the equipment that is used is the same it has been for the last 30 to 40 years, thus keeping the technological advancements of the music complete out of the picture, which had helped develop a lot of experimental music and specially the electronic version of it, which flew ... only to "die" in the last 10 years (even more so after Edgar Froese moved to a new address! And Roland had built stuff specifically for some ideas in Edgar's mind!) because the technological use and playing can not get past the mechanical, or metronomic (as I call it), into the area of "visionary" and "idealistic" which so much of the new music had been a part of for many years.

(This, BTW, explains really well why some folks think that "progressive music" died ... not to mention that we also lost the ability to hear new things and learn from them, because they don't have that "different" vibe that identified the time and space!)

It follows, generally, the history of the music, and how some instruments got better known and studied and used until no one touched them much anymore. One could say that the organ came from Bach though churches had used it for a long time, but its musical talent, was often thought as "pedestrian" ... just like the religion, I suppose! Later, one could say that Mozart invented and killed the violin sound. And so on, until you get to the full size orchestra ... and it wasn't until the likes of Stravinsky and that time period that the orchestra "sound" was broken apart and all of a sudden most composers are totally different in the use of the orchestra and instrumentations, to a lot of its simplest forms, not to mention odd ball combinations, which Bernard Herrmann used to well in a some far out soundtracks, the ones that most folks "don't remember" at all in the Sic-Fi series. But it's sound was unmistakable, and defied the "history" and any "genre" in terms of composition and design, and eventually signaled the change to LOUDER and more ATTACK which became the thing after one movie, though one could say that rock music, had already stamped their foot at that for some time, but was "ignored" in many of the arts, and specially rock music, that became immediately separated from the "popular" forms, and the top ten, to become "art rock" or some other idiotic definition of music. But at least, its very "source" was not a synthesizer, but classical music ... by its use of so many pieces of music when all of a sudden you could hear the "best" keyboard artist doing classical music in an electronic style, which was not really new, but had not reached the "ears" of the commercial sound that America Radio had developed for its own profit! Eventually, this was another cheap door to break apart.

It's really important to specify that the synthesizer was not just an instrument ... it was a music changer, although I would say that it became "commercial" instead of "original" if we sue an example of Tangerine Dream and Edgar Froese who never lost their/his touch for experimenting and trying to take the music to so many emotional places and spaces, that most "rock music" (specially in the boring same 4 instruments and worse ... a lousy drummer that can only do the same thing!) is now showing how aged it is, to the point that folks have to say that they wanted to create something with this feeling or that feeling, instead of concentrating on its own design and feelings ... you end up thinking that you are being "original" because you mixed this with that ... when right from the start, it had been about mixing it all.

Interesting article, and falls into place with a lot of others ... "I dream of Wires" is one, and there are a few other synthesizer stories, up to and including the really early experiments in the 1950's some of which was associated with Sci-Fi, thus giving it the original "space music" because it was so different that our ears could assimilate with the idea of the music being from outer space.
very interesting post, thank you
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 01 2023 at 08:18
Originally posted by Davesax1965 Davesax1965 wrote:

Never liked Rolands, apart from the modular systems. No idea why, I must just not get them. ;-)


Hi,

Considering that you build your own instrument, this is not surprising. I tend to think of Roland, and some of the others, as merely simplified toys to help you bring out some music ... but whose creativity was probably limited, and while it is known that Edgar Froese had various requests for things to be able to get done (the echo chambers of the early days TD used is a great example that even Roland could not duplicate!) ... I tend to think that the "mechanical" and "clockwork" design and functions by its main creators tended to make things difficult to change the main block from which the whole thing comes from can not support the "new" thoughts and designs. 

And this was the issue with Windows at various times when its engine could not support something so new and different, and the same thing fell into the gaming community where the main engine used did about 10 or more online games at the start and they all had the same start (you could not choose a specialty for your character until level 5) and only EQ busted through that ... starting at what would be level 5, which made its game simpler and more attractive, and became the mark for games to follow, and WoW was next in this area, but had newer and stronger engines to work with, although various upgrades of the game in 15 years showed how a stronger computer was required to make it all work and the older machines were dead in the water.

I don't think of Roland, or any other keyboard, as special anymore, certainly not like the early days, when so many things stood out, and were special ... something that many of these today can emulate, but they don't have one third the soul!

I kinda like what you do better, in the sense that at least you design the thing, with what might be a different/new idea in mind, but my thoughts are that you are too influenced by everything out there (I'm sure you heard and know a lot of it!), but something like a Klaus Schulze, or a Tangerine Dream skips you ... and these two TRANSCEND the instruments by miles and miles!!! ... since your music upbringing is a bit more on the mechanical side, than it is on the VISUAL side (in my own words ... can't really see it any different so far) ... otherwise the music itself would flow much further than just what you might consider the limitation of the very tool you created.

This shows itself to me, in my writing, when I come up with something new, and I go read it back, and find a bit of the old thing trying to enter the scene, but eventually it kills itself, as my vision/movie is stronger than any thoughts/ideas I may have about anything ... when it comes to writing, it doesn't matter what I think or know or care to say ... the whole fudging movie still rolls on by itself (so to speak) and I just try hard to keep track of all the details ... regardless of how it looks or sounds!

It can become an inner battle, which is NOT GOOD ... and you have to stop it, by going one way or another, although I find that if I go all intuitive, my mental side tends to get sloppy, which I'm OK with, but if I go to the mental/thinking side, the intuitive tends to go to sleep, and I can not foresee living without that movie AT ALL ... it is all I live for and no woman or inspiration has ever gotten the better of it at all ... for me!

Roland, for me, is just another extension of a hand, but in your case, what do you need another extension for? You already have more than one and build your own. And likely what Roland does looks pretty cheap in your mind, I bet! Now if I can get my Gaia until to connect to my computer I'll be happy, but the USB will not handle it (W10 PRO), and I have gotten a new sound card (Auxigy) to try and see if I can improve this, but I have been too lazy to even try it and disgusted that a small "computer" is not designed to talk to another computer at all and it is a f**king Roland ... no wonder you dislike them!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Davesax1965 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 24 2022 at 08:44
Never liked Rolands, apart from the modular systems. No idea why, I must just not get them. ;-)


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote progbethyname Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 12 2022 at 09:50
Originally posted by Psychedelic Paul Psychedelic Paul wrote:

Land of the Rising Sound: A Roland Retrospective - celebrating 50 years of the Roland synthesiser.




Very cool. Thank you.
Gimmie my headphones now!!! 🎧🤣
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 11 2022 at 07:53
Hi,

One of the interesting things to be noticed here, might just be how much the music at the time, was reliant on some of this equipment, and what we gently consider the sound that has been considered and became known as "progressive" ... and you can see the difference today, with new music "sounding the same" as everything else and having no "identity" that would relate it to a time and space, thus helping "define" its style and ability. 

By comparison, today's bands, are completely bland and boring, since the equipment that is used is the same it has been for the last 30 to 40 years, thus keeping the technological advancements of the music complete out of the picture, which had helped develop a lot of experimental music and specially the electronic version of it, which flew ... only to "die" in the last 10 years (even more so after Edgar Froese moved to a new address! And Roland had built stuff specifically for some ideas in Edgar's mind!) because the technological use and playing can not get past the mechanical, or metronomic (as I call it), into the area of "visionary" and "idealistic" which so much of the new music had been a part of for many years.

(This, BTW, explains really well why some folks think that "progressive music" died ... not to mention that we also lost the ability to hear new things and learn from them, because they don't have that "different" vibe that identified the time and space!)

It follows, generally, the history of the music, and how some instruments got better known and studied and used until no one touched them much anymore. One could say that the organ came from Bach though churches had used it for a long time, but its musical talent, was often thought as "pedestrian" ... just like the religion, I suppose! Later, one could say that Mozart invented and killed the violin sound. And so on, until you get to the full size orchestra ... and it wasn't until the likes of Stravinsky and that time period that the orchestra "sound" was broken apart and all of a sudden most composers are totally different in the use of the orchestra and instrumentations, to a lot of its simplest forms, not to mention odd ball combinations, which Bernard Herrmann used to well in a some far out soundtracks, the ones that most folks "don't remember" at all in the Sic-Fi series. But it's sound was unmistakable, and defied the "history" and any "genre" in terms of composition and design, and eventually signaled the change to LOUDER and more ATTACK which became the thing after one movie, though one could say that rock music, had already stamped their foot at that for some time, but was "ignored" in many of the arts, and specially rock music, that became immediately separated from the "popular" forms, and the top ten, to become "art rock" or some other idiotic definition of music. But at least, its very "source" was not a synthesizer, but classical music ... by its use of so many pieces of music when all of a sudden you could hear the "best" keyboard artist doing classical music in an electronic style, which was not really new, but had not reached the "ears" of the commercial sound that America Radio had developed for its own profit! Eventually, this was another cheap door to break apart.

It's really important to specify that the synthesizer was not just an instrument ... it was a music changer, although I would say that it became "commercial" instead of "original" if we sue an example of Tangerine Dream and Edgar Froese who never lost their/his touch for experimenting and trying to take the music to so many emotional places and spaces, that most "rock music" (specially in the boring same 4 instruments and worse ... a lousy drummer that can only do the same thing!) is now showing how aged it is, to the point that folks have to say that they wanted to create something with this feeling or that feeling, instead of concentrating on its own design and feelings ... you end up thinking that you are being "original" because you mixed this with that ... when right from the start, it had been about mixing it all.

Interesting article, and falls into place with a lot of others ... "I dream of Wires" is one, and there are a few other synthesizer stories, up to and including the really early experiments in the 1950's some of which was associated with Sci-Fi, thus giving it the original "space music" because it was so different that our ears could assimilate with the idea of the music being from outer space.


Edited by moshkito - November 11 2022 at 15:20
Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Psychedelic Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 11 2022 at 04:17
Land of the Rising Sound: A Roland Retrospective - celebrating 50 years of the Roland synthesiser.



Edited by Psychedelic Paul - November 11 2022 at 04:18
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