What ever happened to E.L.P.?

Works 2 was of course leftover tracks, and from that release I do like the titular song of BSS, and again with a bit of play list tinkering I insert that into the BSS album just before Karn Evil 9 - which works well.

As for ELP's later albums... well let me just say IMO they probably should have called it a day after Works 1.

Edited by Floydoid - April 18 2025 at 01:48

But truth be told I never cared for popularity contests (best band, Top 10s...etc.). I just listen to music which has an impact on me.

I frigging despise such popularity rankings. By nature, a ranking of art-driven productions (music, comic books, films, movies and so on) based on a public-voted average numerical score is completely irrelevant when it comes to judging whether band A is better than band B.

However, with that being said, such lists do have their purpose. They can serve as a general guide introducing complete newcomers to getting the basics down on what progressive rock music sounds like, as well as helping them get hooked into the genre and later explore more releases on their own.

Floydoid wrote: As for ELP's later albums... well let me just say IMO they probably should have called it a day after Works 1.

Maybe, and Works 1 could have been a decent single album if it were just the band efforts and the best Carl Palmer (best solo side imo) and Greg Lake songs.

^ on that basis most prog was getting boring by 1974. Many bands that had started about 1969/70 were struggling to progress or come up with new ideas. Prog was splitting into the jazz rock stuff which never had a wide audience. ELP were one of the most recognisable and well known prog bands of the time and still crop up in quiz shows even today (I know because I watch a lot with my Mum!). Fanfare For The Commmon Man made no2 in the UK in 1977 and gave them a brief new lease of life. That along with Keith Emerson's surprise hit Honky Tonk Train Blues and Lake's Xmas song showed the guys were capable of exploring new directions. Works was just a confusing time for the band but honestly most prog bands by 1978 were struggling because they didn't know what else to do. Once you've climbed the hill you can only come down.

Floydoid wrote: ... As for ELP's later albums... well let me just say IMO they probably should have called it a day after Works 1.

Hi,

A tough area to call ... specially as they were a part of a system that was based on hits and making some money for the record company involved ... which means that any musician thinking they can get a free ride and only do what they feel like doing ... might as well retire now, and stop the illusion!

As a writer, I have never wavered from my inner feeling, and I suppose that I could say that I have bucked the "system" more than once, which might have given me a bit more materially, but in the end, it would hurt me inside ... I live for my inner vision, in dreams or otherwise, and write from them a lot ... and I can not leave that behind ... I don't change skins during different seasons, to be able to do that and leaving the comforts they won behind would likely be a serious issue for a discussion, that they needed to have, but might have been one of those moments when things went in agreement in the other way that we as fans have not enjoyed or appreciated ... but in the end, who the fudge am I to be telling a Picasso, or Stravinsky, what to do with their life? It's a ridiculous notion, and us trying to think for Emerson, Lake or Palmer, is a bit on the mean side. I can see Palmer laughing these days, and look at his past with some appreciation for the beautiful work he did that 9 out of 0 drummers would not and instead just play the simplest and highschool'est of bits in drumming, like you have these days ... no talent ... just timing, the first thing you learn in school!

moshkito wrote: Floydoid wrote: ... As for ELP's later albums... well let me just say IMO they probably should have called it a day after Works 1. Hi, A tough area to call ... specially as they were a part of a system that was based on hits and making some money for the record company involved ... which means that any musician thinking they can get a free ride and only do what they feel like doing ... might as well retire now, and stop the illusion! As a writer, I have never wavered from my inner feeling, and I suppose that I could say that I have bucked the "system" more than once, which might have given me a bit more materially, but in the end, it would hurt me inside ... I live for my inner vision, in dreams or otherwise, and write from them a lot ... and I can not leave that behind ... I don't change skins during different seasons, to be able to do that and leaving the comforts they won behind would likely be a serious issue for a discussion, that they needed to have, but might have been one of those moments when things went in agreement in the other way that we as fans have not enjoyed or appreciated ... but in the end, who the fudge am I to be telling a Picasso, or Stravinsky, what to do with their life? It's a ridiculous notion, and us trying to think for Emerson, Lake or Palmer, is a bit on the mean side. I can see Palmer laughing these days, and look at his past with some appreciation for the beautiful work he did that 9 out of 0 drummers would not and instead just play the simplest and highschool'est of bits in drumming, like you have these days ... no talent ... just timing, the first thing you learn in school!

I seem to be alone in thinking that Emerson continued doing exactly what he wanted which was to explore orchestral music. I find it sad that no one cares about his soundtrack music for the films Inferno, Nighthawks and Best Revenge. Coming out of school and going to college I was still listening to him and really there just nothing else I cared about. Furthermore Emerson was still keen to bring back progressive ideas with 1986's Emerson, Lake and Powell which although hit and miss was still way more interesting than almost anything else coming out in mainstream rock music at the time. Palmer is another case though. He was far too young to give up being only 27 when the music press was rounding on ELP in 1977. He had to change his style and stance to survive and did that very sucessfully with the band Asia. I respect the guy a lot but even you have to admit his drumming on things like Black Moon and later Asia albums is pretty dreadfully dull. Sadly Carl stopped being relevant as drummer decades ago although I love his lust for life and displaying his visual drumming art which he does with great enthusiasm. He's also a 'tea totaller' like youself. Something in that it would seem ( although I could never dream of giving up beer, not happening ever!!)

richardh wrote: ... I seem to be alone in thinking that Emerson continued doing exactly what he wanted which was to explore orchestral music. I find it sad that no one cares about his soundtrack music for the films Inferno, Nighthawks and Best Revenge. Coming out of school and going to college I was still listening to him and really there just nothing else I cared about. ...

Hi,

I also enjoy the orchestral material he did and always thought that "my generation" had the talent to be one of the greats, however, the whole thing had been, by that time, inundated by rock folks that did not care about the music itself, except the hits they liked ... and it was very bad ... I had the same reaction when I walked out of the YES concert in 1972, when everyone stood up for the encore ... of the well known hits!!! There was no such appreciation for TFTO ... and I cried on the way out, because I knew good example right there, that the "music" was no longer important, and the money would stay with the hits. And a buffoon started his curry idiocy to help sell his solo albums!

That hurt bands like ELP a lot. And it's a good thing that KC did not do exactly, some concept albums with ideas, or they would have been ripped apart even more than they were.

The wonderful thing, though, is that Keith Emerson will be remembered for a long time and appreciated for his work ... and most of those "reviewers and idiots"? No one remembers them or even knows who they were or are. Though I tend to think that on a progressive forum, too many folks here don't care for the music itself ... and that hurts ... I often suggest those folks never cared what "progressive music" and its parent "art rock" was really all about ... because for them it wasn't a hit of their choice!

I got into ELP for their classical music work, which Keith Emerson had already been doing with The Nice. But the times were changing and the corporate structures were getting stronger, and finally around 1980, took all the independent radio stations off the air, and gave them "classic rock" which they still play ... and that means only 2, maybe 3, songs by ELP will ever be heard and those folks, mostly have never even heard the albums ... most of us, even here, are better tuned to music than just the same hits on a different rotation every day of the week, and repeated next week!

Edited by moshkito - April 20 2025 at 10:19

richardh wrote: ^ on that basis most prog was getting boring by 1974. Many bands that had started about 1969/70 were struggling to progress or come up with new ideas. Prog was splitting into the jazz rock stuff which never had a wide audience. ELP were one of the most recognisable and well known prog bands of the time and still crop up in quiz shows even today (I know because I watch a lot with my Mum!). Fanfare For The Commmon Man made no2 in the UK in 1977 and gave them a brief new lease of life. That along with Keith Emerson's surprise hit Honky Tonk Train Blues and Lake's Xmas song showed the guys were capable of exploring new directions. Works was just a confusing time for the band but honestly most prog bands by 1978 were struggling because they didn't know what else to do. Once you've climbed the hill you can only come down.

Yeah, I can't get behind the "prog got boring by 1974" view. I'm sure dr_prog is taking the piss. Tangerine Dream suddenly got huge in '74! Then Goblin went from strength to strength with Profondo Rosso and Suspiria. Jean-Michel Jarre had a pair of hit albums. Vangelis. Tomita. Even Kraftwerk. And so on. And I love the fusion stuff: Weather Report, Return to Forever, Brand X, Herbie Hancock, Jan Hammer's myriad collaborations...!

The whole "prog got boring by 1974" is an anglo-commonwealth-centric myth that's repeated by people that dismiss the more underground 2nd wave prog bands, mostly from outside the 1st Western World.

presdoug wrote: verslibre wrote: richardh wrote: ^ on that basis most prog was getting boring by 1974. Many bands that had started about 1969/70 were struggling to progress or come up with new ideas. Prog was splitting into the jazz rock stuff which never had a wide audience. ELP were one of the most recognisable and well known prog bands of the time and still crop up in quiz shows even today (I know because I watch a lot with my Mum!). Fanfare For The Commmon Man made no2 in the UK in 1977 and gave them a brief new lease of life. That along with Keith Emerson's surprise hit Honky Tonk Train Blues and Lake's Xmas song showed the guys were capable of exploring new directions. Works was just a confusing time for the band but honestly most prog bands by 1978 were struggling because they didn't know what else to do. Once you've climbed the hill you can only come down. Yeah, I can't get behind the "prog got boring by 1974" view. I'm sure dr_prog is taking the piss. Tangerine Dream suddenly got huge in '74! Then Goblin went from strength to strength with Profondo Rosso and Suspiria. Jean-Michel Jarre had a pair of hit albums. Vangelis. Tomita. Even Kraftwerk. And so on. And I love the fusion stuff: Weather Report, Return to Forever, Brand X, Herbie Hancock, Jan Hammer's myriad collaborations...! And European bands like Triumvirat and Libra were also making their mark in America in 1974 and 1975, respectively...and Nektar and PFM were breaking new ground at that time, as well....

Libra's 1977 soundtrack to Schock certainly benefitted from the Goblin connection: drummer Walter Martino was a founding member and participated in the realization of Profondo Rosso in 1975.