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Certif1ed
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 08 2004
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 7559
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Posted: July 08 2005 at 08:56 |
MikeEnRegalia wrote:
Certif1ed wrote:
Your list doesn't take into account how the album fits into the prog genre (...)
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No problem - ratings 4 and 5 are the ones for you. I don't see any problem.
But your list ratings 1 - 3 are specific to the band, and 4 is specific to a sub-genre which may or may not exist. 
I prefer the use of the word "Masterpiece", even if most people don't seem to know what the word means.
I can and always will feel free to disagree... 
Certif1ed wrote:
A newcomer may not be familiar with every band on the site, so it's helpful to know aspects of the music that might appeal to the "Average Prog Listener". (...)
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There is NO SUCH THING as an "Average Prog Listener".
You're kidding me, right???   
You surely notice how much the two of us disagree on Meshuggah ... I guess we also disagree on Fantomas, Dillinger Escape Plan etc. Those bands cannot be quantified easily. You can just say "this band sounds like ... well, like no other band I know".
But that wouldn't be true. Every band can be compared to an other band - it doesn't require that much imagination. To say it sounds like nothing you know suggests that you are not "well-read" in the genre, or simply lack imagination.
Meshuggah are easy to quantify - I have already done so. There's much less prog there than you seem to think, and it's easy to hear influences. I'm not familiar with the other bands you mention, but am currently exploring the music of Fantomas. It's not hard to quantify either. No band I've heard to date really causes me any issues in that respect - except, perhaps, Shub-Niggurath and Henry Cow.
Certif1ed wrote:
I don't think it's helpful to quantify in terms of subgenres (...)
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It's imperative to quantify in terms of subgenres. Newcomers will not begin with obscure albums with very few ratings. They will look at the top 100 list and explore prog from there (at least they should). If you don't quantify on subgenres, but choose the lowest common denominator instead, your review is likely to contain no valuable information at all.
I cannot agree with that - and I've already made my thoughts known. There's nothing imperative about quantifying in terms of subgenres, especially since those subgenres are largely misleading, inaccurate and on the whole, completely wrong!
The top level genre, "Prog", is much simpler to come to terms with - but even that is disagreed on by most prog fans - so why complicate it further with silly subgenres? It's all Prog. Well. Most if it is... |
Edited by Certif1ed
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russellk
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 28 2005
Location: New Zealand
Status: Offline
Points: 782
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Posted: July 07 2005 at 17:16 |
I think the 'fanboy' reviews are some of the most valuable to appear on this
site, and I'm sad they were deleted.
I'm sure I'm not the only one to read all the reviews of an album and, noting
the preponderance of fanboy reviews, draw certain conclusions at to what
the music is like. Now that they have gone, I can no longer make that
judgment.
In other words, if *they* all like it, I'm suspicious of it.
*this is only partly tongue in cheek*
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Tony R
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: July 16 2004
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 11985
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Posted: July 07 2005 at 17:13 |
Drew wrote:
Wow- you guys take this S*it way too seriously- must quote me over, and over, wow-
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Man Overboard
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 07 2004
Location: Austin, TX
Status: Offline
Points: 3830
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Posted: July 07 2005 at 17:10 |
I dunno, it seems a lot of reviewers as of late review only albums they hate.
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Drew
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 20 2005
Location: California
Status: Offline
Points: 12600
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Posted: July 07 2005 at 17:09 |
One last thing bout reviews- you run into trouble when reviewers mostly review albums that they LOVE- ( i must admit- i have done more positive reviews than negative reviews) Inagine if you reviewed every single album that you had, or heard? it would throw the ratings WAY off- just a thought.
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Drew
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 20 2005
Location: California
Status: Offline
Points: 12600
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Posted: July 07 2005 at 16:59 |
Cool
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The Hemulen
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: July 31 2004
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 5964
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Posted: July 07 2005 at 16:59 |
Yep, you did. And I wasn't trying to offend/hurt you, I was merely making an observation.
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Drew
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 20 2005
Location: California
Status: Offline
Points: 12600
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Posted: July 07 2005 at 16:55 |
Oh- ouch- that hurts- hey- I got quoted again!!! lol
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The Hemulen
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: July 31 2004
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 5964
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Posted: July 07 2005 at 16:54 |
Drew wrote:
Wow- you guys take this S*it way too seriously- must quote me over, and over, wow- |
Moron.
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Drew
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 20 2005
Location: California
Status: Offline
Points: 12600
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Posted: July 07 2005 at 16:45 |
Wow- you guys take this S*it way too seriously- must quote me over, and over, wow-
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Coya
Forum Groupie
Joined: July 05 2005
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 73
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Posted: July 07 2005 at 16:29 |
I'm also of the opinion that this one is more just than "just a website", but one of it's best qualities, is that everyone is allowed to say her or his opinion, post her or his review (including fanboys and hateboys), have a favorite band and so on. And because of that, your are going to find all kinds of people here (which is great). If anyone doesn't like that, he can always create a yahoo-group of something like that, and decide himself who is gonna belong to it or not.
That also the reason why moderators and admins should be extremly tolerant about reviews (actually about everything on this site) and try not to erase much of them; their variety and polarity are the escence of this great site.
PD: By the way Tuxon, America is a continent, not a country.
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geezer
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 03 2005
Location: Cocos (Keeling) Islands
Status: Offline
Points: 606
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Posted: July 07 2005 at 15:06 |
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tuxon
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 21 2004
Location: plugged-in
Status: Offline
Points: 5502
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Posted: July 07 2005 at 14:56 |
Tony R wrote:
Drew wrote:
This is just a website- whats the big deal- nothing to get all pissy about- bad-reviews are a part of life- everyone had their own opinions- even if they are sucky
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What's all this "pissy" and "sucky"?
You a rent boy?
Or about 9 yrs old............................
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he's from the United States
(sorry America, wanted to say it, doesn't mean I think your all pissy sucky wanky yankee doodley)
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I'm always almost unlucky _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Id5ZcnjXSZaSMFMC Id5LM2q2jfqz3YxT
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Tony R
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: July 16 2004
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 11985
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Posted: July 07 2005 at 14:54 |
Drew wrote:
This is just a website- whats the big deal- nothing to get all pissy about- bad-reviews are a part of life- everyone had their own opinions- even if they are sucky
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What's all this "pissy" and "sucky"?
You a rent boy?
Or about 9 yrs old............................
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The Hemulen
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: July 31 2004
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 5964
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Posted: July 07 2005 at 14:51 |
Drew wrote:
This is just a website- whats the bid deal- nothing to
get all pissy about- bad-reviews are a part of life- everyone had their
own opinions- even if they are sucky |
Actually, for some people this is more than "just a website". I think a
lot of us would like to see this place become one of the most
accessible and informative progressive rock sites on the net. We're
mostly there, but there's always room for improvement. I think we have
every right to care about the reviews that get posted here, thank you
very much.
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Drew
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 20 2005
Location: California
Status: Offline
Points: 12600
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Posted: July 07 2005 at 14:44 |
This is just a website- whats the big deal- nothing to get all pissy about- bad-reviews are a part of life- everyone had their own opinions- even if they are sucky
Edited by Drew
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Easy Livin
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: February 21 2004
Location: Scotland
Status: Offline
Points: 15585
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Posted: July 07 2005 at 14:33 |
I'm sick of people always complaining about people always complaining about... oh forget it!
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MikeEnRegalia
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 22 2005
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 21817
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Posted: July 07 2005 at 12:15 |
I'm sick of the people always complaining about the people constantly looking at that list.
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MikeEnRegalia
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 22 2005
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 21817
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Posted: July 07 2005 at 12:12 |
Arteum wrote:
Let me not go into the theory of sets, but simply ask: is 4 stars essential or non-essential? I suppose something may be either essential or non-essential, but not both. So, 5 stars is essential ... 3 -- non-essential but good. Is 4 stars non-essential but excellent addition ... ? I believe 2 and 1 stars characterise something non-essential for sure.
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I think that 4 star albums can be essential, but only for fans of that sub genre. 5 stars should be albums that EVERY prog fan should have. An album like Shadow Gallery: Tyranny for example would be 4 stars ... but the problem is that I love that album so much that it would break my heart to rate it any less than MAXIMUM. This is too difficult ...
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tuxon
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 21 2004
Location: plugged-in
Status: Offline
Points: 5502
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Posted: July 07 2005 at 11:51 |
that's a good point, I always wonder about that, are there really people who give higher ratings, or lower ratings than the album actually deserves according themselves, just to get their average rating more to their liking. Would be wrong to do if you'd ask me. Give an album the rating it deserves in your opinion, and don't let your rating be guided by other things than your personal opinion about the album.
I think the top 100 list is a good thing to have, but don't expect it to be to your liking, for it displays the most popular/best known, and also the best albums, but the more unknown albums are not going to be on such a list, that's what exploring is all about, finding something in the haystack that blows you away
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I'm always almost unlucky _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Id5ZcnjXSZaSMFMC Id5LM2q2jfqz3YxT
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