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Johnnytuba 
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 02 2009
Location: New York
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Points: 377
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 Topic: Pink Floyd Progressive Rock?
Posted: December 15 2009 at 17:10 |
Hello fellow proggers, I have a friend at work who enjoys prog as much as I do. We both are consistently asking each other why Pink Floyd is considered progressive rock. I am also wondering why Wish You Were Here is number 3 on the all time prog album list when I don't find it progressive at all. Just to clarify, I think Pink Floyd is a great band even though they are not my favorite. This isn't meant to flame the band, but why do you think they would be considered prog, and why is Wish you Were Here rated so high on a prog rock album list when it clrealy isn't progressive.
.......and another thing, I enjoy reading reviews on this site quite a bit, but it pains me to see reviews of albums for Black Sabbath. Innovators of Heavy Metal, yes, progressive rock? no.
Input anyone.
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"The things that we're concealing, will never let us grow.
Time will do its healing, you've got to let it go.
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LandofLein
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 02 2009
Location: Temecula, CA
Status: Offline
Points: 214
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Posted: December 15 2009 at 17:25 |
I'll leave the arguments for Pink Floyd to the collaborators and people who can explain it better than me, I just want to let you know that Black Sabbath is under prog related
Edited by LandofLein - December 15 2009 at 20:40
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mrcozdude
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 25 2007
Location: Devon,UK.
Status: Offline
Points: 2078
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Posted: December 15 2009 at 17:27 |
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^yeah I feel the same.
We can just say one word each to explain.
Concepts
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Johnnytuba
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 02 2009
Location: New York
Status: Offline
Points: 377
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Posted: December 15 2009 at 17:30 |
 LandofLein wrote:
I'll leave the arguments for Pink Floyd to the collaboraters and people who can explain it better than me, I just want to let you know that Black Sabbath is under prog related
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I am aware of Black Sabbath in prog related, I am just curious as to why some non-prog (IMO) bands slip through and end up on this site. I've loved black sabbath for decades but I never would have considered them prog. Prog-related does not necessarily translate to prog itself. But what about Pink Floyd?
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"The things that we're concealing, will never let us grow.
Time will do its healing, you've got to let it go.
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rushfan4
Special Collaborator
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Joined: May 22 2007
Location: Michigan, U.S.
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Points: 66759
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Posted: December 15 2009 at 17:36 |
I believe that Pink Floyd are here in Progressive rock, because with their earlier albums they were pioneers in psychedelic and space rock, which are branches of progressive rock. The later on concept albums probably also contributed, since in the area of rock, concept albums tend to land under the progressive label, although this doesn't mean that it is an all inclusive progressive rock characteristic. Tracks like Atom Heart Mother clocking in at 24 minutes, A Saucerful of Secrets at 12 minutes, Echoes at 23 minutes, etc...
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Johnnytuba
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 02 2009
Location: New York
Status: Offline
Points: 377
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Posted: December 15 2009 at 17:37 |
rushfan4 wrote:
I believe that Pink Floyd are here in Progressive rock, because with their earlier albums they were pioneers in psychedelic and space rock, which are branches of progressive rock. The later on concept albums probably also contributed, since in the area of rock, concept albums tend to land under the progressive label, although this doesn't mean that it is an all inclusive progressive rock characteristic. Tracks like Atom Heart Mother clocking in at 24 minutes, A Saucerful of Secrets at 12 minutes, Echoes at 23 minutes, etc... |
well put, well put.
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"The things that we're concealing, will never let us grow.
Time will do its healing, you've got to let it go.
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rushfan4
Special Collaborator
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Joined: May 22 2007
Location: Michigan, U.S.
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Posted: December 15 2009 at 17:43 |
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Now, as far as why Wish You Were Here is the 3rd highest ranked album on the site. That I can't explain. Personally, I think that it is an excellent album, and I suppose that many others must think the same way, since the rating is based on the reviews, but I wouldn't consider it to be the 3rd best prog album ever (I have not reviewed it by the way). I might not even consider it the 3rd best Pink Floyd album.
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The Pessimist
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 13 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 3834
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Posted: December 15 2009 at 17:47 |
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Pink Floyd are considered progressive rock because they have an uncountable number of songs that a rock, and they are dynamically progressive and innovative. I can name a good few, like Echoes, Shine On, Atom Heart Mother, Breathe... sh*t loads. Seriously, if anything they defined what Spacey prog rock actually is.
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"Market value is irrelevant to intrinsic value."
Arnold Schoenberg
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Easy Money
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: August 11 2007
Location: Memphis
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Points: 10736
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Posted: December 15 2009 at 18:03 |
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I like Pink Floyd a lot, but they never hit me as a prog band in the sense that King Crimson, Gentle Giant or ELP are. I guess the definition of prog has expanded, but back in the day Crimson or ELP was what I called prog rock.
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MovingPictures07
Prog Reviewer
Joined: January 09 2008
Location: Beasty Heart
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Points: 32181
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Posted: December 15 2009 at 18:15 |
Easy Money wrote:
I like Pink Floyd a lot, but they never hit me as a prog band in the sense that King Crimson, Gentle Giant or ELP are. I guess the definition of prog has expanded, but back in the day Crimson or ELP was what I called prog rock. |
That's how I feel about it too, except obviously I don't have the "back in the day" experience.  I just never saw Pink Floyd as a band that is definitive of progressive rock. If you have an expansive definition of what "progressive" is (which is good, so long as it is backed by some sort of rationality), then I can see them being in it---but I would never say that on a "progressive scale" that they are any higher than low-medium.
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mrcozdude
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 25 2007
Location: Devon,UK.
Status: Offline
Points: 2078
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Posted: December 15 2009 at 18:21 |
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I think for me I entered progressive rock knowing that Floyd already had been established as a prog group there's a lot of characteristics so never thought twice.
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The Truth
Collaborator
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Joined: April 19 2009
Location: Kansas
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Points: 21795
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Posted: December 15 2009 at 18:42 |
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Hell, they fathered progressive rock! They were one of the first underground rock groups and probably the first to bring prog to the mainstream
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Progosopher
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 12 2009
Location: Coolwood
Status: Offline
Points: 6484
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Posted: December 15 2009 at 18:46 |
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To understand why bands like Pink Floyd and Black Sabbath are on this site, we need to look at the various categories, and understand how each is different. Psychadelic Space Rock is not quite the same as Symphonic. The descriptions for each category should speak for themselves.
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The world of sound is certainly capable of infinite variety and, were our sense developed, of infinite extensions. -- George Santayana, "The Sense of Beauty"
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mrcozdude
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 25 2007
Location: Devon,UK.
Status: Offline
Points: 2078
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Posted: December 15 2009 at 18:48 |
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^....and they do.Well except for heavy prog which is a bit to ambiguous
Edited by mrcozdude - December 15 2009 at 18:48
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J-Man
Prog Reviewer
Joined: August 07 2008
Location: Philadelphia,PA
Status: Offline
Points: 7826
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Posted: December 15 2009 at 18:48 |
Tangerine Dream is considered progressive rock. Black Sabbath is considered prog-related. The Mars Volta are considered progressive rock. I disagree with all 3 of these statements. But life goes on doesn't it?!?! So stop b*tchin' about it!   Nah, just kidding. I understand what you're saying. Pink Floyd never screams prog like ELP, Yes, Gentle Giant, Yes, etc. but I still ultimately consider them a prog band. I think Wish You Were Here is pure prog rock, but it is debatable I guess. I think their extended song structures, instrumental passages, and space rock sound warrant a progressive rock label, but that's just my opinion. -Jeff
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mrcozdude
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 25 2007
Location: Devon,UK.
Status: Offline
Points: 2078
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Posted: December 15 2009 at 18:53 |
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^I don't understand how you can say that about the volta.I'll even go as far as saying Volta's progressive tendencys are more obvious then Floyd's (in terms of characteristics)
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RoyFairbank
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 07 2008
Location: Somewhere
Status: Offline
Points: 1072
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Posted: December 15 2009 at 18:53 |
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Is Pink Floyd a Progressive Band?
Pink Floyd is not only a progressive band, its the only progressive band.
Read the lyrics of Pink Floyd and compare to the fantasy stories of Genesis and Yes
Listen to the depth of the musical moods, textures and artistic patience - there is nothing formulaic
Think about the political and philosophical weight behind the Floyd's material.
There is no one else like Floyd. Wish You Were Here was not their best work (that being Animals or the Final Cut in this posters opinion) but even it has a moral force that clearly distinguishes it from other acts which to their credit and our enjoyment consider rock and roll a form of artistic expression.
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mrcozdude
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 25 2007
Location: Devon,UK.
Status: Offline
Points: 2078
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Posted: December 15 2009 at 18:55 |
RoyFairbank wrote:
Is Pink Floyd a Progressive Band?
Pink Floyd is not only a progressive band, its the only progressive band.
Read the lyrics of Pink Floyd and compare to the fantasy stories of Genesis and Yes
Listen to the depth of the musical moods, textures and artistic patience - there is nothing formulaic
Think about the political and philosophical weight behind the Floyd's material.
There is no one else like Floyd. Wish You Were Here was not their best work (that being Animals or the Final Cut in this posters opinion) but even it has a moral force that clearly distinguishes it from other acts which to their credit and our enjoyment consider rock and roll a form of artistic expression.
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I think we better stay away from this forum for a while.I don't think our statements are going to be well received lol
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CCVP
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 15 2007
Location: Vitória, Brasil
Status: Offline
Points: 7971
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Posted: December 15 2009 at 19:19 |
J-Man wrote:
Tangerine Dream is considered progressive rock. Black Sabbath is considered prog-related. The Mars Volta are considered progressive rock.
I disagree with all 3 of these statements. But life goes on doesn't it?!?! So stop b*tchin' about it!
Nah, just kidding.
I understand what you're saying. Pink Floyd never screams prog like ELP, Yes, Gentle Giant, Yes, etc. but I still ultimately consider them a prog band. I think Wish You Were Here is pure prog rock, but it is debatable I guess. I think their extended song structures, instrumental passages, and space rock sound warrant a progressive rock label, but that's just my opinion.
-Jeff
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The biggest problem is that Pink Floyd is (was, actually) commercially successful. I think Pink Floyd and most bands/artists influenced by them (that I listen to) are actually 100% progressive, like Steven Wilson, Opeth and Arjen Lucassen, but the fact that they sold over 200 million albums make them sound way too mainstream when compared to bands like King Crimson, Genesis, Yes and even ELP, which sold much less then the multi-platinum space rock masters. But anyway, this is one of those things that are mainly "IMO, THEY ROCK/SUCK, THEREFORE THEY ARE/AREN'T PROGRESSIVE."
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Slartibartfast
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam
Joined: April 29 2006
Location: Atlantais
Status: Offline
Points: 29630
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Posted: December 15 2009 at 19:30 |
 How could they possibly progressive if they don't know how to use bananas properly? Which is of course banana pudding with the vaniller wafers if they don't eat their meat. I might add as tip to Johnnytuba, this has been discussed ad nauseous. Try the search function, this site has been around for a few years now and believe me, it has come up. Just a friendly nudge there. Hang out here long enough and you will experience thread deja vu doo doo. I first got into prog back in '78, had many acquaintances that were into prog. There wasn't ever any doubt or discussion about it. Your challenge now: come up with a thread topic that hasn't been discussed, or join the bar fight under Just For Fun.  By the way CCVP those bananas are giving my computer a hard time. But I agree, commercial success and being progressive rock are not necessarily mutually exclusive (unless you are Genesis ).
Edited by Slartibartfast - December 15 2009 at 19:40
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
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Pink Floyd Progressive Rock?
