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JLocke 
Prog Reviewer
Joined: November 18 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 4900
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 Topic: Michael Moore
Posted: June 01 2010 at 10:34 |
I bring this up because a recent semi-political discussion with a forum friend put me in mind of this man. This man who by all accounts has influenced a great many Americans (and maybe even some non-Americans, as well) to see the world in the same exact way he does. Is that good or bad, in your opinion? Do you tend to agree with Mr. Moore's views more often than not, or is be bad news?
Me, I think he's right some of the time, and I certainly don't think he is intentionally pushing an agenda. However, his politics are nowhere close to my own, and I have to wonder sometimes where he is coming from. I think his stances on things such as guns, capitalism and the like are ridiculous, yet at the same time I agree with him 50% of the time on his healthcare views, and we both agree that George Bush was an idiot.
Michael Moore doesn't force people to agree with him; he simply states his opinions, and it just so happens that they make sense to a lot of people. But those people tend to know nothing of politics beforehand, and it's obviously easy to sway them. As someone who is very interested in politics already, I don't always find the guy's viewpoints realistic or even sensible. Yet I wonder if the world would be a lesser place without him.
So, what say you? Does he have it right? And even if you disagree with him, are you glad he is here to express his freedom of speech?
Edited by JLocke - June 01 2010 at 10:37
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JLocke
Prog Reviewer
Joined: November 18 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 4900
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Posted: June 01 2010 at 10:41 |
Alright, I see two additional votes, but no responses in the forum. Can you guys please elaborate on your votes as well so we can get a real conversation going, here?
For what it's worth, I think whoever voted the 'never' option is a drone. 
Edited by JLocke - June 01 2010 at 10:44
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Epignosis
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: December 30 2007
Location: Raeford, NC
Status: Offline
Points: 32588
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Posted: June 01 2010 at 10:49 |
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akamaisondufromage
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: May 16 2009
Location: Blighty
Status: Offline
Points: 6797
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Posted: June 01 2010 at 10:55 |
Was that you Epignosis? 
JLocke you made this poll I don't think calling some one a 'Drone' will help encourage healthy debate
For what it's worth I agree with him most of the time but I realise he is slightly biased and there miight just be another side to whatever argument he is proposing!
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Help me I'm falling!
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JLocke
Prog Reviewer
Joined: November 18 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 4900
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Posted: June 01 2010 at 10:58 |
I had a feeling. 
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UndercoverBoy
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 10 2009
Location: Tulsa, OK, U.S.
Status: Offline
Points: 5148
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Posted: June 01 2010 at 10:58 |
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I've never seen any of his movies, so no vote. From what it seems, I agree with most of his points, particularly on guns and healthcare.
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JLocke
Prog Reviewer
Joined: November 18 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 4900
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Posted: June 01 2010 at 11:01 |
 akamaisondufromage wrote:
Was that you Epignosis?
JLocke you made this poll I don't think calling some one a 'Drone' will help encourage healthy debate
For what it's worth I agree with him most of the time but I realise he is slightly biased and there miight just be another side to whatever argument he is proposing! |
Nice answer. I just think somebody who speaks in absolutes like that isn't truly taking into consideration all the nuances and individuality of the said person. You're bound to agree with someone on SOMETHING, even if you don't like them personally. I put the 'always' and 'never' options up there to see how many one-sided thinkers we have on this forum. One-sided = biased, which is never good, on either side. But that's just my biased opinion.
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Epignosis
Special Collaborator
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Joined: December 30 2007
Location: Raeford, NC
Status: Offline
Points: 32588
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Posted: June 01 2010 at 11:01 |
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JLocke
Prog Reviewer
Joined: November 18 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 4900
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Posted: June 01 2010 at 11:02 |
UndercoverBoy wrote:
I've never seen any of his movies, so no vote. From what it seems, I agree with most of his points, particularly on guns and healthcare. |
So you think we don't have the right to defend ourselves, but the crooks have the right to shoot us at will?
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Epignosis
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: December 30 2007
Location: Raeford, NC
Status: Offline
Points: 32588
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Posted: June 01 2010 at 11:02 |
JLocke wrote:
akamaisondufromage wrote:
Was that you Epignosis?
JLocke you made this poll I don't think calling some one a 'Drone' will help encourage healthy debate
For what it's worth I agree with him most of the time but I realise he is slightly biased and there miight just be another side to whatever argument he is proposing! |
Nice answer. I just think somebody who speaks in absolutes like that isn't truly taking into consideration all the nuances and individuality of the said person. You're bound to agree with someone on SOMETHING, even if you don't like them personally. I put the 'always' and 'never' options up there to see how many one-sided thinkers we have on this forum. One-sided = biased, which is never good, on either side. But that's just my biased opinion. |
Okay, I guess I should change my vote.
We both agree on eating.
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JLocke
Prog Reviewer
Joined: November 18 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 4900
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Posted: June 01 2010 at 11:03 |
Epignosis wrote:
JLocke wrote:
akamaisondufromage wrote:
Was that you Epignosis?
JLocke you made this poll I don't think calling some one a 'Drone' will help encourage healthy debate
For what it's worth I agree with him most of the time but I realise he is slightly biased and there miight just be another side to whatever argument he is proposing! |
Nice answer. I just think somebody who speaks in absolutes like that isn't truly taking into consideration all the nuances and individuality of the said person. You're bound to agree with someone on SOMETHING, even if you don't like them personally. I put the 'always' and 'never' options up there to see how many one-sided thinkers we have on this forum. One-sided = biased, which is never good, on either side. But that's just my biased opinion. |
Okay, I guess I should change my vote.
We both agree on eating.
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UndercoverBoy
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 10 2009
Location: Tulsa, OK, U.S.
Status: Offline
Points: 5148
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Posted: June 01 2010 at 11:05 |
Epignosis wrote:
JLocke wrote:
akamaisondufromage wrote:
Was that you Epignosis?
JLocke you made this poll I don't think calling some one a 'Drone' will help encourage healthy debate
For what it's worth I agree with him most of the time but I realise he is slightly biased and there miight just be another side to whatever argument he is proposing! |
Nice answer. I just think somebody who speaks in absolutes like that isn't truly taking into consideration all the nuances and individuality of the said person. You're bound to agree with someone on SOMETHING, even if you don't like them personally. I put the 'always' and 'never' options up there to see how many one-sided thinkers we have on this forum. One-sided = biased, which is never good, on either side. But that's just my biased opinion. |
Okay, I guess I should change my vote.
We both agree on eating.
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Seriously, though. I think that it's impossible to agree or disagree with someone 100%. Seems a little extreme.
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JLocke
Prog Reviewer
Joined: November 18 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 4900
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Posted: June 01 2010 at 11:07 |
I like how you dodged my question, UndercoverBoy. You don't feel like debating today?
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Epignosis
Special Collaborator
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Joined: December 30 2007
Location: Raeford, NC
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Points: 32588
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Posted: June 01 2010 at 11:10 |
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On topic (well kind of), let me just say that I was angry to hear my sister spouting some nonsense about the health care situation only to hear that one of her teachers had been showing Michael Moore films in the classroom. I don't think that's cool.
I prided myself as a teacher in that none of students ever knew what my political beliefs were. Whenever any of them made a point about a subject, I'd play devil's advocate regardless of whether or not I actually disagreed with them.
I want students to learn to think and research, not just buy anything they are told.
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UndercoverBoy
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 10 2009
Location: Tulsa, OK, U.S.
Status: Offline
Points: 5148
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Posted: June 01 2010 at 11:11 |
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Epignosis
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: December 30 2007
Location: Raeford, NC
Status: Offline
Points: 32588
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Posted: June 01 2010 at 11:11 |
UndercoverBoy wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
JLocke wrote:
akamaisondufromage wrote:
Was that you Epignosis?
JLocke you made this poll I don't think calling some one a 'Drone' will help encourage healthy debate
For what it's worth I agree with him most of the time but I realise he is slightly biased and there miight just be another side to whatever argument he is proposing! |
Nice answer. I just think somebody who speaks in absolutes like that isn't truly taking into consideration all the nuances and individuality of the said person. You're bound to agree with someone on SOMETHING, even if you don't like them personally. I put the 'always' and 'never' options up there to see how many one-sided thinkers we have on this forum. One-sided = biased, which is never good, on either side. But that's just my biased opinion. |
Okay, I guess I should change my vote.
We both agree on eating.
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Seriously, though. I think that it's impossible to agree or disagree with someone 100%. Seems a little extreme. |
I assumed the topic dealt with Moore's specific politics and was not a comprehensive question. And I can't say I agree with any of his politics. Hence, my voting "Never."
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Dorsalia
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 21 2006
Location: Cape Mola
Status: Offline
Points: 367
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Posted: June 01 2010 at 11:15 |
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I tend to agree with Michael More on most of the "core issues", at least in terms of the essence of what he says, but I think he has a tendency to oversimplify issues and reach hasty conclusions without going through all the logical steps.
I can 't really enjoy his movies anymore, because I feel they've become kind of simplistic tearjerkers, even if they can have some great footage and segments. I think he probably oversimplifies in this way on purpose, but I at least find it excessive, even if I agree totally that there are some serious problems with Capitalism, the health system, gun control and foreign policy in the United States, among other things.
It's also annoying the way he portrays foreign countries as utopias, without showing the drawbacks to their systems as well.
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"Es ist übrigens unmöglich, eine Meinung zu haben, ohne dass es unerfreuliche Überschneidungen gibt. Die Grünen sind für den deutschen Wald, die NPD ebenfalls."
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JLocke
Prog Reviewer
Joined: November 18 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 4900
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Posted: June 01 2010 at 11:16 |
Epignosis wrote:
On topic (well kind of), let me just say that I was angry to hear my sister spouting some nonsense about the health care situation only to hear that one of her teachers had been showing Michael Moore films in the classroom. I don't think that's cool.
I prided myself as a teacher in that none of students ever knew what my political beliefs were. Whenever any of them made a point about a subject, I'd play devil's advocate regardless of whether or not I actually disagreed with them.
I want students to learn to think and research, not just buy anything they are told.
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As usual, I agree with you completely, Rob. However, I don't think Michael Moore himself would disagree with us, either. I honestly don't believe he is an agenda-pusher. I could be naive about that, but he truly does want what he thinks is best for his country. That's a very patriotic way to be, whether I agree with him, or not.
Any teacher who pushes somebody else's agenda to her students should be fired, in my opinion. It gets us nowhere when an entire generation is told exactly what to think and feel. What we SHOULD be telling our kids is to think and feel for themselves.
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JLocke
Prog Reviewer
Joined: November 18 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 4900
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Posted: June 01 2010 at 11:16 |
Okay, cool. I look foreard to debating with you.
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Dorsalia
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 21 2006
Location: Cape Mola
Status: Offline
Points: 367
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Posted: June 01 2010 at 11:17 |
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Oh and, by the way, Flint, Michigan is my hometown as well.
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"Es ist übrigens unmöglich, eine Meinung zu haben, ohne dass es unerfreuliche Überschneidungen gibt. Die Grünen sind für den deutschen Wald, die NPD ebenfalls."
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Michael Moore
