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Is Prog really a genre? |
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Moyan 
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Joined: February 29 2024 Location: Suffex Status: Offline Points: 690 |
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 Posted: February 29 2024 at 11:05 |
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Valdez1
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Joined: February 07 2024 Location: Walla Walla Wa Status: Offline Points: 336 |
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Posted: February 29 2024 at 18:03 |
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YES... Prog is a genre... And its the only genre to have hundreds of sub-genres following behind it, only because it is so interesting and exploratory. Thats a good thing. All praise King Prog & his subjects.
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Saperlipopette!
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Joined: December 20 2010 Location: Tomorrowland Status: Offline Points: 10069 |
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Posted: February 29 2024 at 20:28 |
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^ I'd say Rock has more sub-genres - including Prog (and quite a few of its sub-genres) which is called Prog Rock you know.
Edited by Saperlipopette! - February 29 2024 at 22:07 |
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Awesoreno
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Joined: October 07 2019 Location: Culver City, CA Status: Offline Points: 2906 |
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Posted: February 29 2024 at 21:27 |
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Ask any metal-head how many established and recognized sub-genres of metal there are, and you will question the validity of this statement.
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siLLy puPPy
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PSIKE, JRF/Canterbury, P Metal, Eclectic Joined: October 05 2013 Location: SFcaUsA Status: Offline Points: 14778 |
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Posted: February 29 2024 at 22:02 |
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^ NO genre has hundreds of subgenres. Not even prog and metal but they do have a lot! |
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 https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy |
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Valdez1
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Joined: February 07 2024 Location: Walla Walla Wa Status: Offline Points: 336 |
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Posted: February 29 2024 at 23:00 |
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I Admit my offhand exaggeration. Hundreds is out of line. Rock may have up to a hundred sub genres... I don't know, Some of it is subjective. Whatever became of Math Rock? Is that something gleaned from Discipline era Crimson? Is Zappa Avant Prog? Sun Ra Progressive Jazz? or Avant Jazz? Is Avant Jazz a prog sub-Genre or a sub-genre of jazz? Was Bowie Prog? Mile Davis "In a silent way" is in the top 100 prog list here... is it really prog as some define it? So is Queensryche. I'm confused. It's a tedious undertaking. I had no idea there were so many sub genres of Metal, which is a sub-genre of Rock.
Edited by Valdez1 - February 29 2024 at 23:11 |
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MikeEnRegalia
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Posted: March 01 2024 at 01:00 |
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^ I never considered Zappa to be "Prog". Zappa was always in a league of his own. One of my top 10 favorite musicians of all time, and certainly deserving to be listed here, but he's not "Prog" as in "Progressive Rock" as it was defined after the classic prog releases of the early 70s.
Zappa and "Prog" have in common the progressive approach to writing, composing and performing music. So "Prog", as the word is used today, can mean both a (relatively narrow) sub genre of Rock music (think CttE/SEbtP), a wider sub genre encompassing everything from KC to Tangerine Dream, or a general attitude.
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richardh
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Joined: February 18 2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 26371 |
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Posted: March 01 2024 at 03:02 |
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Zappa and The Beatles were probably the biggest influences on progressive musicians but neither was really 'prog' as said. Which comes back to the main problem, is it down to attitude or creating a certain style. I'm not convinced it can be both at the same time. It's easily forgotten that plenty of critics were already becoming weary of a lot of prog circa 1972. It wasn't until 1977 that the walls were torn down though.
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Logan
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Site Admin Joined: April 05 2006 Location: Vancouver, BC Status: Offline Points: 33095 |
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Posted: March 01 2024 at 05:07 |
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I would say that Prog is both a genre and a subgenre and also a loose term/ category for music of great diversity, and the amount of diversity will vary from person to person. Prog can be such a nebulous term and such an indistinct classification. The amorphous qualities fit rock without boundaries, rock without limits, but it can take in non-rock music too. In a way I have thought of Prog as ageneric, genre-defying as well as genre-bending music, and also it can be a clearer genre of a more distinct style with distinct attributes. Prog to me is a spectrum, diverse. I tend not to associate my interests with the Prog term much, and more often would use the terms art, artsy, experimental or quirky for what I gravitate towards, much of which might be classified by people as Prog.
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David_D
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Joined: October 26 2010 Location: Copenhagen Status: Offline Points: 13530 |
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Posted: March 01 2024 at 05:49 |
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"hundreds of sub-genres" is definitely an exaggeration, but a lot of sub-genres, I will call "PA Prog".  |
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quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond
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Cristi
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Posted: March 01 2024 at 05:55 |
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There are even more prog subgenre names elsewhere. But you surely like to bash PA it seems.
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David_D
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Posted: March 02 2024 at 01:54 |
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Just a tongue-in-cheek observation on basis of all my "Prog" experience and musical knowledge, and you asked me even earlier in this thread about my opinion concerning PA.
Besides that, all talk about the Prog term without describing its specific use is in my opinion too abstract and rather meaningless. Also, please, keep away from personal comments. |
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quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond
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Cristi
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Posted: March 02 2024 at 02:14 |
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You have NEVER explained what is wrong with the way PA defines prog/progressive rock, have you read the definitions and the prog rock guides from the main page? The prog subgenres pages? I'm not convinced you did, because otherwise we would get an explanation of what is wrong with them, wouldn't we?!  What's a personal comment? Disagreeing with someone and a personal attack are not the same thing. You keep complaining and never tell the reason why. |
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WeepingElf
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Joined: August 18 2013 Location: Germany Status: Offline Points: 373 |
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Posted: March 03 2024 at 07:16 |
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To contribute my own €0.02 to this eternal discussion, I'd say that prog is a genre, as it has its characteristic conventions, as to song structure (transcending the "radio single" format), compositional and lyrical sophistication all the way to concept albums and beyond (there are cycles of concept albums and even concept bands) and the like. Yet, it is a very wide and diverse genre with very different styles (compare Yes and Dream Theater: different styles, same genre), and as always with genres, the boundaries are fuzzy and nebulous. I have come across the term "meta-genre" somewhere, I don't know where though, and that may fit here. At any rate, prog is not the same as music that is literally progressive, as a band that does nothing else than what the classic prog bands of the '70s do wouldn't be very progressive, but definitely within the prog genre. (At least here in Germany, we call that thing "retro-prog", which sums up its paradoxical nature aptly, I'd say.)
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Mehrdadgan wrote: