"Freedom" thread or something

I've also heard that many of those jobs are fairly lame ones historically, based on the incomes they provide.  But I've not been job hunting so I'm not sure how salaries look these days. 

Capitalism makes us miserable...aside from basic consciousness.

manofmystery wrote: ^BAAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

^Doc, even you would agree that Zumacraig's first-ever post on this thread was quite a little less than... inspiring. Or intelligent. Or anything. MoM's answer was quite appropiate.

You're delusional if you're chosing to blame the market's invisible hand when clearly it's the quite visible hand of government action that strokes big business.

The T wrote: ^Doc, even you would agree that Zumacraig's first-ever post on this thread was quite a little less than... inspiring. Or intelligent. Or anything. MoM's answer was quite appropiate.

manofmystery wrote: The problem seems to be, in this thread, that the self-labelled "liberals" come in and vaguely blame the nonexistent free market, we point out that there is no free market because the government is clearly involved, the liberals ignore that and stick to the script they've been taught, and we spin in circles because the wheels are only turning (providing something useful) on one side.  It gets rather exhausting.  I imagine it's the reason we don't see some of our former regulars (talking about you, equality ) in here too often anymore.  Feels like a lot of wasted time trying to get the blind to see what's right in front of their eyes.  This is why I chose to laugh derisively at another troll post (I like to call them "slartis") instead of wasting time and effort on it.  If he would like to provide some examples of how he thinks the nonexistent free market has created specific issues then we can address that.

That kind of joking doesn't translate well in plain text, you know.  Really needed to couple it with a picture of a grumpy cat.

zumacraig wrote: manofmystery wrote: That kind of joking doesn't translate well in plain text, you know.  Really needed to couple it with a picture of a grumpy cat. Good point.  I think was planning to do that, but forgot before I posted.   All my points are good Seriously though, Libertarians and those of the left persuasion agree on many things.  Taxes for war, drugs, etc.  I personally cannot get past the fact that labor is exploited and alienating in a market economy.  The profit motive doesn't seem to lean towards being the best, but more towards cutting any and all corners to increase the bottom line.   That seems to be what happens right now, in a non-market economy.  I would, and have on many many occasions (how many pages are we up to now?), argue that the increased competition of a truely free market would drive quality up as businesses would need to be constantly innovating to meet the ever changing demands of consumers before someone else does it better.  Instead what we have now are preset regulatory bars that provide cover for existing companies to be lazy because they make it near impossible for new businesses to break into an existing market and also set a minimum standards that are "just good enough" and are often written into law by lobbiest for the businesses.    BTW, you're avatar pic, is it from No Country for Old Men?  That character is one of the most compelling i've seen in years.     On this we are in complete agreement.  Bardem was brilliant.

The thing is, when the markets are opened up, small and medium sized enterprises reap the benefits initially and grow quickly.  Eventually, though, big business shuts them out (and this big business might include erstwhile medium sized companies) out of the market, either by bleeding them in price wars or buying them out.   A govt that really wants free markets should create conditions that help SMEs to thrive because they are the heart of the economy.  Big business can always make noises about 'poor' investment climate if they don't like some tax cases and shift their operations elsewhere...and they are often more capital intensive than SMEs.    But whether in Western capitalist nations or back home, I am not sure I see much evidence of policies that promote the growth of SMEs, only a lot of shameless sucking up to big business.  A tycoon is allowed to let his airline bleed to death and even try desperate tactics to block lenders from selling pledged shares of his other group companies to recover their loans.  While the Central Bank refuses easy loans to small textile firms that are struggling to compete with other exporting nations.   Where's the love for the free market here?  What was promoted as free market economics in the 80s has either always been or has morphed into crony capitalism.   

Edited by rogerthat - April 13 2013 at 02:33