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Certif1ed 
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Joined: April 08 2004
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 Posted: March 24 2008 at 09:48 |
It's my personal opinion that "Script" is a far greater album than "Lamb", mainly because the former is the work of a complete band, but also because the latter is too full of filler.
While the title track and "Carpet Crawlers" are great (if somewhat poppy) songs, there are so many forgettable songs on "Lamb" that are merely there to forward the somewhat meandering story, that I find it hard to consider "Lamb" as anything but Gabriel's exit album, and a low point after the previous 3.
Just my opinion, mind 
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The important thing is not to stop questioning.
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StyLaZyn
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 22 2005
Location: United States
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Points: 4079
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Posted: March 24 2008 at 10:26 |
 Certif1ed wrote:
It's my personal opinion that "Script" is a far greater album than "Lamb", mainly because the former is the work of a complete band, but also because the latter is too full of filler.
While the title track and "Carpet Crawlers" are great (if somewhat poppy) songs, there are so many forgettable songs on "Lamb" that are merely there to forward the somewhat meandering story, that I find it hard to consider "Lamb" as anything but Gabriel's exit album, and a low point after the previous 3.
Just my opinion, mind |
I agree completely especially with the bolded typeface.
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AShowOfHands
Forum Groupie
Joined: March 11 2008
Location: England
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Points: 60
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Posted: March 24 2008 at 13:09 |
I see no problem here.
Script For A Jester's Tear > The Lamb Lies Down On Broadway
Although that's not to say Lamb is sh*te.
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JLocke
Prog Reviewer
Joined: November 18 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 4900
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Posted: March 24 2008 at 14:43 |
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Selling England by the Pound is a better Genesis album anyway, at least in my opinion. I don't get why so many people hold Lamb is such high regard. Is it because it was Gabriel's last album, so folks think it must be great? I personally think Genesis had lost its momentum before he left anyway.
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crimson87
Prog Reviewer
Joined: January 03 2008
Location: Argentina
Status: Offline
Points: 1818
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Posted: March 24 2008 at 14:47 |
[[/QUOTE] The rankings are temporary and meaningless, although cool to have around. I would say, any prog list that doesn't have ELP on the top 20 symphonic prog albums is a bit odd seeing that ELP were HUGE in their day and extremely influential regardless of whats been said against them. However, the rating system would be very hard to change and does a good job at what it is...their could be a "most influential album" list...lol [/QUOTE]
I agree with that .ELP should have at least two albums in the top 50.Tarkus could be a top 20 , and Welcome Back a top ten Live album
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The Quiet One
Prog Reviewer
Joined: January 16 2008
Location: Argentina
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Points: 15745
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Posted: March 24 2008 at 14:59 |
p0mt3 wrote:
Selling England by the Pound is a better Genesis album anyway, at least in my opinion. I don't get why so many people hold Lamb is such high regard. Is it because it was Gabriel's last album, so folks think it must be great? I personally think Genesis had lost its momentum before he left anyway. |
Lamb in some way is like The Wall, an album with a huge concept in it, making all the band work together perfectly...
SEBTP being somewhat like DSOTM with there highest point of majesty...
It's not just because Gabriel's last album, it is really a huge and magnificent album, not maybe the fave of all but surely one of their finest efforts together wtih Selling England by the Pound.
To add: I'm no Genesis fan, but those are my only albums I really like plus Trespass.
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JLocke
Prog Reviewer
Joined: November 18 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 4900
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Posted: March 24 2008 at 15:02 |
cacho wrote:
p0mt3 wrote:
Selling England by the Pound is a better Genesis album anyway, at least in my opinion. I don't get why so many people hold Lamb is such high regard. Is it because it was Gabriel's last album, so folks think it must be great? I personally think Genesis had lost its momentum before he left anyway. |
Lamb in some way is like The Wall, an album with a huge concept in it, making all the band work together perfectly...
SEBTP being somewhat like DSOTM with there highest point of majesty...
It's not just because Gabriel's last album, it is really a huge and magnificent album, not maybe the fave of all but surely one of their finest efforts together wtih Selling England by the Pound.
To add: I'm no Genesis fan, but those are my only albums I really like plus Trespass.
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Well, I guess I can see the appeal because of the majesty of the whole thing, but where you and I may possibly be dissagreeing is that unlike ''Lamb'', ''The Wall'' actually WAS Pink Floyd's best work. The larger story and the concept behind it were just added bonuses to an already immaculate collection of perfect songs.
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The Quiet One
Prog Reviewer
Joined: January 16 2008
Location: Argentina
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Points: 15745
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Posted: March 24 2008 at 15:23 |
p0mt3 wrote:
cacho wrote:
p0mt3 wrote:
Selling England by the Pound is a better Genesis album anyway, at least in my opinion. I don't get why so many people hold Lamb is such high regard. Is it because it was Gabriel's last album, so folks think it must be great? I personally think Genesis had lost its momentum before he left anyway. |
Lamb in some way is like The Wall, an album with a huge concept in it, making all the band work together perfectly... SEBTP being somewhat like DSOTM with there highest point of majesty... It's not just because Gabriel's last album, it is really a huge and magnificent album, not maybe the fave of all but surely one of their finest efforts together wtih Selling England by the Pound. To add: I'm no Genesis fan, but those are my only albums I really like plus Trespass. |
Well, I guess I can see the appeal because of the majesty of the whole thing, but where you and I may possibly be dissagreeing is that unlike ''Lamb'', ''The Wall'' actually WAS Pink Floyd's best work. The larger story and the concept behind it were just added bonuses to an already immaculate collection of perfect songs. |
The Wall best Floyd work?? Ha don't think so... Even though being subjective, I really can't see how it's the band best work, listen to the drug dose of Dark Side of the Moon, that's were they really worked as an entire band. I didn't say Dark side cause it's my fave, cause it's not, in fact is the least Floyd album I listen to, but you and I must admit it's a massive work from them.
To make things clear my faves are : Animals, Meddle and Obscured by Clouds.
BTW: I really can't see perfect songs in The Wall do you?
Edited by cacho - March 24 2008 at 15:24
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JLocke
Prog Reviewer
Joined: November 18 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 4900
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Posted: March 24 2008 at 15:49 |
cacho wrote:
p0mt3 wrote:
cacho wrote:
p0mt3 wrote:
Selling England by the Pound is a better Genesis album anyway, at least in my opinion. I don't get why so many people hold Lamb is such high regard. Is it because it was Gabriel's last album, so folks think it must be great? I personally think Genesis had lost its momentum before he left anyway. |
Lamb in some way is like The Wall, an album with a huge concept in it, making all the band work together perfectly... SEBTP being somewhat like DSOTM with there highest point of majesty... It's not just because Gabriel's last album, it is really a huge and magnificent album, not maybe the fave of all but surely one of their finest efforts together wtih Selling England by the Pound. To add: I'm no Genesis fan, but those are my only albums I really like plus Trespass. |
Well, I guess I can see the appeal because of the majesty of the whole thing, but where you and I may possibly be dissagreeing is that unlike ''Lamb'', ''The Wall'' actually WAS Pink Floyd's best work. The larger story and the concept behind it were just added bonuses to an already immaculate collection of perfect songs. |
The Wall best Floyd work?? Ha don't think so... Even though being subjective, I really can't see how it's the band best work, listen to the drug dose of Dark Side of the Moon, that's were they really worked as an entire band. I didn't say Dark side cause it's my fave, cause it's not, in fact is the least Floyd album I listen to, but you and I must admit it's a massive work from them.
To make things clear my faves are : Animals, Meddle and Obscured by Clouds.
BTW: I really can't see perfect songs in The Wall do you? |
I absolutely see perfect song on The Wall.
DSotM is praised because it was the band's biggest hit. It is a very under-produced, weak-sounding album in many respects and while I still love listening to it, the three albums that were to follow it were much better, in my honest opinion.
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The Quiet One
Prog Reviewer
Joined: January 16 2008
Location: Argentina
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Points: 15745
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Posted: March 24 2008 at 16:02 |
p0mt3 wrote:
cacho wrote:
p0mt3 wrote:
cacho wrote:
p0mt3 wrote:
Selling England by the Pound is a better Genesis album anyway, at least in my opinion. I don't get why so many people hold Lamb is such high regard. Is it because it was Gabriel's last album, so folks think it must be great? I personally think Genesis had lost its momentum before he left anyway. |
Lamb in some way is like The Wall, an album with a huge concept in it, making all the band work together perfectly... SEBTP being somewhat like DSOTM with there highest point of majesty... It's not just because Gabriel's last album, it is really a huge and magnificent album, not maybe the fave of all but surely one of their finest efforts together wtih Selling England by the Pound. To add: I'm no Genesis fan, but those are my only albums I really like plus Trespass. |
Well, I guess I can see the appeal because of the majesty of the whole thing, but where you and I may possibly be dissagreeing is that unlike ''Lamb'', ''The Wall'' actually WAS Pink Floyd's best work. The larger story and the concept behind it were just added bonuses to an already immaculate collection of perfect songs. |
The Wall best Floyd work?? Ha don't think so... Even though being subjective, I really can't see how it's the band best work, listen to the drug dose of Dark Side of the Moon, that's were they really worked as an entire band. I didn't say Dark side cause it's my fave, cause it's not, in fact is the least Floyd album I listen to, but you and I must admit it's a massive work from them. To make things clear my faves are : Animals, Meddle and Obscured by Clouds. BTW: I really can't see perfect songs in The Wall do you? |
I absolutely see perfect song on The Wall.
DSotM is praised because it was the band's biggest hit. It is a very under-produced, weak-sounding album in many respects and while I still love listening to it, the three albums that were to follow it were much better, in my honest opinion. |
Well I think we're going to reach nowhere so let our subjective side aside from two fo us..
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endlessepic
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 22 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 354
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Posted: March 24 2008 at 17:32 |
crimson87 wrote:
[ |
The rankings are temporary and meaningless, although cool to have around. I would say, any prog list that doesn't have ELP on the top 20 symphonic prog albums is a bit odd seeing that ELP were HUGE in their day and extremely influential regardless of whats been said against them. However, the rating system would be very hard to change and does a good job at what it is...their could be a "most influential album" list...lol [/QUOTE]
I agree with that .ELP should have at least two albums in the top 50.Tarkus could be a top 20 , and Welcome Back a top ten Live album [/QUOTE] If there was a degree of influentiality (is that a word?) than it would have to be put together by well meaning people. I for instance do not listen to Dream Theater, but they clearly have had a ton of influence over modern bands. But with the rating system as it is...this is more about what the majority of people like.
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soundsweird
Prog Reviewer
Joined: December 08 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 408
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Posted: March 24 2008 at 19:43 |
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"Lamb" is one of my favorite albums; the only track I don't like is "Waiting Room"; I listened to a used copy of "Script" again in a record store the other day (I've done that twice before over the years); the music's pretty good, but I didn't like the vocals or lyrics (perhaps I'm overly critical since I've been a singer and lyricist, with an English degree, for 40 years). Having said that, I believe that there's no good or bad music, just what you like and don't like...
Edited by soundsweird - March 24 2008 at 19:45
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JLocke
Prog Reviewer
Joined: November 18 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 4900
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Posted: March 24 2008 at 23:06 |
soundsweird wrote:
"Lamb" is one of my favorite albums; the only track I don't like is "Waiting Room"; I listened to a used copy of "Script" again in a record store the other day (I've done that twice before over the years); the music's pretty good, but I didn't like the vocals or lyrics (perhaps I'm overly critical since I've been a singer and lyricist, with an English degree, for 40 years). Having said that, I believe that there's no good or bad music, just what you like and don't like... |
Huh . . . that's interesting. I have never found any real fault in the lyrics or singing.  Oh well, different strokes for different folks, I guess.
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kenmartree
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 14 2007
Location: oregon
Status: Offline
Points: 356
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Posted: March 25 2008 at 00:57 |
First to be up front with bias, PG Genesis is my fav band, Marillion are in my top 10. I saw it mentioned that people can't understand why some rate the Lamb so highly. Since it's my favorite album I wish I could help more with this but it doesn't translate into words. The Lamb transports me to a magical place, think of your most favorite music, you're not going to try and justify the way it makes you feel, it just does. I've been hearing about the filler for decades and while the waiting room and silent sorrow were written for costume changes, only the waiting room sounds like filler to me. I love Script as well, I got it in 83 and it certainly has its place in keeping prog alive, great album. I don't care where they are rated, it doesn't affect my enjoyment and being the proghead I am, I kind of like that I'm the minority.
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prog4evr
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 22 2005
Location: Wuhan, China
Status: Offline
Points: 1455
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Posted: March 25 2008 at 04:13 |
Moogtron III wrote:
Like Tony, I prefer Genesis to Marillion. I like The Lamb more than Script, but I think Script is a solid album nevertheless. |
I also prefer Genesis to Marillion, and Lamb is a masterpiece. I disagree that Script is "a solid album" though. Their first drummer (did he move on to IQ?) just didn't do anything for the syncopation dynamics on any of the Script songs. By the time Ian Mosley joined them on Fugazi, they really 'clicked' - all the more so on 'Misplace Childhood,' which is another masterpiece...
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Certif1ed
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Joined: April 08 2004
Location: England
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Points: 7559
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Posted: March 25 2008 at 04:32 |
p0mt3 wrote:
DSotM is praised because it was the band's biggest hit. It is a very under-produced, weak-sounding album in many respects and while I still love listening to it, the three albums that were to follow it were much better, in my honest opinion. |
DSOTM under-produced???
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The important thing is not to stop questioning.
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toolis
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 26 2006
Location: MacedoniaGreece
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Posted: March 25 2008 at 04:44 |
Certif1ed wrote:
p0mt3 wrote:
DSotM is praised because it was the band's biggest hit. It is a very under-produced, weak-sounding album in many respects and while I still love listening to it, the three albums that were to follow it were much better, in my honest opinion. |
DSOTM under-produced??? |
of course it is!!!! what is 2000 light years ahead of its time? pfff...
"sarcastic smiley"
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-music is like pornography...
sometimes amateurs turn us on, even more...
-sometimes you are the pigeon and sometimes you are the statue...
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Certif1ed
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Joined: April 08 2004
Location: England
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Posted: March 25 2008 at 05:19 |
toolis wrote:
"sarcastic smiley" |
If ONLY we had one of those... 
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The important thing is not to stop questioning.
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salmacis
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Content Addition
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Posted: March 25 2008 at 05:37 |
DSOTM is one of the best produced albums I know of.I've read exactly the same inane criticisms of Genesis albums like 'Selling England...' and 'Trick Of The Tail' on this forum; I flagged them up as having great productions and was told they were 'nothing special'. I think if you aren't being walloped over the head, which seems to be the way of doing things on a lot of modern albums, it gets criticised. Those Genesis albums give the music room to breathe, without suffocating them. The acoustic passages on these still sound gorgeous. Compare them to stuff like Asia's reverb spalttered 80s albums, David Bowie's 'Never Let Me Down' (maybe the worst example of over-production I've ever heard) or Genesis' 'Invisible Touch' which are 'busier' and see which ones come off better.
I think Eddie Offord was another superb producer; his work on the Yes albums is brilliant. My general rule of thumb with Yes studio albums is if Eddie Offord produced it, it's almost a guarantee that it will stand up better today than albums that he didn't produce ('Tormato', 'Big Generator' and 'Union' are surely the worst offenders in Yes' back catalogue, with '90125' being of its time as well).
'Script...' is not my favourite Marillion album by any means, and parts of it sounds really clunky now (particularly Mick Pointer's drumming on some of it- he makes a right mess of 'Garden Party' IMHO) but as a debut, it's terrific. Compared to debuts by some others within the neo prog realm, it seems even better. I'd argue that 'Script...' has stood the test of time better than its follow-up, 'Fugazi', which IMHO suffers from dated production and overcomplicated songs (the middle of the album just loses me completely, to be honest). The good thing with Marillion compared to a lot of other 80s prog albums is that they steered clear of the syn-drums; I read an interview with Roger Waters where he said that the reason DSOTM still sounds fresh is precisely because of the fact that modern technologies like syn drums/drum machines and gimmicks were kept at bay.
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A B Negative
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Posted: March 25 2008 at 13:01 |
Birmingham's favourite vegetable is the onion! WTF?!?!
The Lamb is too sprawling, Script suffers from clunky drumming and 80s production. I like them both, in different ways. If someone has a different opinion, that's fine with me. |
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"The disgusting stink of a too-loud electric guitar.... Now, that's my idea of a good time."
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Script For A Jester's Tear#25 & Lamb Lies Down #80
