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Argonaught View Drop Down
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Points: 1413 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Argonaught Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 25 2014 at 16:53
Originally posted by Kati Kati wrote:

The main fact here, we should take in consideration that this site needs a constant flow of activity and interest by newcomers to survive in order to stay at the top. Unfortunately the bogus ratings manipulation equally discredit the site.
However, I think it's important that we not make it even more difficult for newcomers to join, this is detrimental to the wellbeing of the site, in fact maybe we should facilitate this even more for newcomers to join and give more incentives for them to participate, however in terms of ratings I too think this method is being abused, maybe as a suggestion newcomers should only be able to rate albums after they have written at least 2 reviews?
There is no simple solution, we know this unfortunately, nor do I know how to fix this problem :( bah 
Hugs Hug

^I completely agree, and I am glad that you said this (because no-one here will listens to me) LOL I really want to see rating abuse stamped out .. preferably through prevention rather than playing whack-a-mole with someone who signs up under 15 different names. 

Anyone interested should be able to join, and to begin making good faith contributions to the discussions. Everyone knows that forum posts are personal opinions only, and takes them as such. But the PA average ratings are different; they either represent-, or appear to represent the prevalent opinion of the PA community as a whole. Thus, when people post their reviews and ratings, they de-facto speak on behalf of, well, everyone here. It's not unfair to ask them to wait until they are qualified to do so. No-one's gonna die. If they get upset and quit because they can't slap an album with a bunch of one-star ratings under different names, good riddance.  


Edited by Argonaught - October 25 2014 at 16:54
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Angelo View Drop Down
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Points: 13244 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Angelo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 27 2014 at 19:11
I reported a few more tonight. Not sure if anything can be done though - we devised the rating calculation to be such that ratings only count with a far lesser weight than reviews, and these are outweighed by collaborator reviews. Usually, that works, and it may be less work than removing the trolls. However, after 8 years I also tend to feel its about time to send out a bit of a stronger signal here...
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I stopped blogging and reviewing - so won't be handling requests. Promo's for ariplay can be sent to [email protected]
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odinalcatraz View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Argonaught Argonaught wrote:

Originally posted by Kati Kati wrote:

The main fact here, we should take in consideration that this site needs a constant flow of activity and interest by newcomers to survive in order to stay at the top. Unfortunately the bogus ratings manipulation equally discredit the site.
However, I think it's important that we not make it even more difficult for newcomers to join, this is detrimental to the wellbeing of the site, in fact maybe we should facilitate this even more for newcomers to join and give more incentives for them to participate, however in terms of ratings I too think this method is being abused, maybe as a suggestion newcomers should only be able to rate albums after they have written at least 2 reviews?
There is no simple solution, we know this unfortunately, nor do I know how to fix this problem :( bah 
Hugs Hug

^I completely agree, and I am glad that you said this (because no-one here will listens to me) LOL I really want to see rating abuse stamped out .. preferably through prevention rather than playing whack-a-mole with someone who signs up under 15 different names. 

Anyone interested should be able to join, and to begin making good faith contributions to the discussions. Everyone knows that forum posts are personal opinions only, and takes them as such. But the PA average ratings are different; they either represent-, or appear to represent the prevalent opinion of the PA community as a whole. Thus, when people post their reviews and ratings, they de-facto speak on behalf of, well, everyone here. It's not unfair to ask them to wait until they are qualified to do so. No-one's gonna die. If they get upset and quit because they can't slap an album with a bunch of one-star ratings under different names, good riddance.  


Ha ha!!
I gave up getting involved in all this but I LOVE the "Whack-a-mole" comment. Brilliant!
Some one told me he didn't even need an email address to sign up. Isn't that a bit odd? No site has that weakness these days I thought.
http://www.corvusstone.com
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aapatsos View Drop Down
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Important not to set too many barriers for young members joining as said by Sonia. Progressively Wink, the site has tried to dis-incentivise the use of rating-only and I think we are getting there. Maybe some fine tuning is still required.
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Bonnek View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Angelo Angelo wrote:

I reported a few more tonight. Not sure if anything can be done though - we devised the rating calculation to be such that ratings only count with a far lesser weight than reviews, and these are outweighed by collaborator reviews. Usually, that works, and it may be less work than removing the trolls. However, after 8 years I also tend to feel its about time to send out a bit of a stronger signal here...


I'm not so sure how this whole weighted calculation works.
Take this album for instance as an example. It hasn't got too much reviews/ratings so calculation shouldn't be too difficult to simulate?

http://www.progarchives.com/album-reviews.asp?id=44375

This album has got 3 reviews
1 x 5 star rating by member
1 x 5 star rating by collaborator
1 x 4 star rating by collaborator

On top 52 ratings.

This gives an overal average is only 3.81, which is very low for PA standards and especially so if you look at the appreciation in the reviews.
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Kati View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Bonnek Bonnek wrote:

Originally posted by Angelo Angelo wrote:

I reported a few more tonight. Not sure if anything can be done though - we devised the rating calculation to be such that ratings only count with a far lesser weight than reviews, and these are outweighed by collaborator reviews. Usually, that works, and it may be less work than removing the trolls. However, after 8 years I also tend to feel its about time to send out a bit of a stronger signal here...


I'm not so sure how this whole weighted calculation works.
Take this album for instance as an example. It hasn't got too much reviews/ratings so calculation shouldn't be too difficult to simulate?

http://www.progarchives.com/album-reviews.asp?id=44375

This album has got 3 reviews
1 x 5 star rating by member
1 x 5 star rating by collaborator
1 x 4 star rating by collaborator

On top 52 ratings.

This gives an overal average is only 3.81, which is very low for PA standards and especially so if you look at the appreciation in the reviews.



You peaked my interest Bonnek :) looked them up and so far only managed to hear bits on CD Universe, however this was enough for me to know I will not be able to judge them or their music. They are more death metal compared to my music preference Wink hugs Hug 
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Dean View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Bonnek Bonnek wrote:

Originally posted by Angelo Angelo wrote:

I reported a few more tonight. Not sure if anything can be done though - we devised the rating calculation to be such that ratings only count with a far lesser weight than reviews, and these are outweighed by collaborator reviews. Usually, that works, and it may be less work than removing the trolls. However, after 8 years I also tend to feel its about time to send out a bit of a stronger signal here...


I'm not so sure how this whole weighted calculation works.
Take this album for instance as an example. It hasn't got too much reviews/ratings so calculation shouldn't be too difficult to simulate?

http://www.progarchives.com/album-reviews.asp?id=44375

This album has got 3 reviews
1 x 5 star rating by member
1 x 5 star rating by collaborator
1 x 4 star rating by collaborator

On top 52 ratings.

This gives an overal average is only 3.81, which is very low for PA standards and especially so if you look at the appreciation in the reviews.
The weightings are simple: 
rating only = x1
review = x10
collab review = x20

working out the average would be:
Quote
Warthur = 20 :: 20 x 5 = 100
UMUR  = 20 :: 20 x 4 = 80
alderbran well  = 10 :: 10 x 5 = 50
total 5 ratings = 13 :: 13 x 5 = 65
total 4 ratings =  6 ::   6 x 4 = 24
total 3 ratings = 12 ::  12 x 3 = 36
total 2 ratings = 10 ::  10 x 2 = 20
total 1 ratings =  6 ::   6 x 1 = 6
------ -------
totals  = 97 :: = 381
------ -------
therefore average = 381 / 97 = 3.93 (50 ratings)
There is a discrepancy between that and the published average of 3.81 (55 ratings) because the total hasn't been recalculated since 5 bogus ratings were deleted. (I suspect those were 3x1-star and 2x2-star)

To see whether the ratings are "fair" you need to look at the distribution of votes, this little bar-chart on each album page is far more informative and meaningful than any calculated average:

Quote
5-star 31% ************
4-star 15% ******
3-star 25% **********
2-star 17% ******
1-star 12% ****
The first thing this tells you is that the 3-star average is not wrong.

You would expect this to follow a "Normal" distribution but as you can see the number of 4-star ratings is lower than expected, which implies the 5-stars are higher than expected. This is not unusual or "wrong" because the sample size of 50 votes is too low to be statistically meaningful so is skewed by the number of "legitimate" fan votes (all albums attract a disproportionate number of 5-star ratings to begin with).
What?
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Bonnek View Drop Down
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Points: 4521 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bonnek Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 31 2014 at 04:06
Thanks for this!
Sound like they'll need another review to get this refreshed




Edited by Bonnek - October 31 2014 at 04:09
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Argonaught View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Bonnek Bonnek wrote:

Thanks for this!
Sound like they'll need another review to get this refreshed



I can't remember if this was in this thread or somewhere else: I "accidentally" discovered that, after a few fake reviews have been removed, the system doesn't automatically recalculate the average rating. I went to my own review, changed the rating (e.g. from 4 to 3 stars), saved it, then changed the rating back to what it was (from 3 to 4 stars) and saved again. This way you don't need to wait for a new reviewer to trigger the recalculation. 
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Kati View Drop Down
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Positive feedback in terms of this new software update, the new thanks button love that! Also I seem not to have any problem whatsoever typing taking my time post and not having the text I typed disappear! Ha! I like it! I like this! A massive hug Hug
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Xonty View Drop Down
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This guys reviews are pretty extreme - about 80% 5-star and 10% 1-star.

http://www.progarchives.com/Collaborators.asp?id=52858
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Nogbad_The_Bad View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Xonty Xonty wrote:

This guys reviews are pretty extreme - about 80% 5-star and 10% 1-star.

http://www.progarchives.com/Collaborators.asp?id=52858


Haha

Pavlovs Dog get one 5 star album, and 4 one start album. Apparently Dream Theater have done 33 5 star albums, singles and dvds!!


Edited by Nogbad_The_Bad - November 01 2014 at 09:07
Ian

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https://podcasts.progrock.com/post-avant-jazzcore-happy-hour/
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floflo79 View Drop Down
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http://www.progarchives.com/album.asp?id=47220

An user named Matt T rate The Endless River with 5 stars. Even if there's only 2 songs who came out.
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aapatsos View Drop Down
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Points: 9226 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aapatsos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 01 2014 at 11:31
Remains to be seen if abuse on this (yet another new) entry is about to begin - hope not
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Argonaught View Drop Down
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Points: 1413 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Argonaught Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 01 2014 at 20:42
Originally posted by floflo79 floflo79 wrote:

http://www.progarchives.com/album.asp?id=47220

An user named Matt T rate The Endless River with 5 stars. Even if there's only 2 songs who came out.

Why even enable the rating/review feature before the album has been released? 
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aapatsos View Drop Down
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This user seems to outright assign 1-star to every S Wilson and P Tree release there is out there...http://www.progarchives.com/Collaborators.asp?id=7677
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Points: 5319 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote timothy leary Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 23 2014 at 11:11
http://www.progarchives.com/Collaborators.asp?id=49724&listreviews=rate&showall=true#reviews

Nothing wrong here.......evidently 2014 is a bad year  for prog
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I rated Love Beach with 3 stars. Is that inappropriate ??
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Originally posted by Tom Ozric Tom Ozric wrote:

I rated Love Beach with 3 stars. Is that inappropriate ??

As long as nobody finds out! Smile
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Tom Ozric View Drop Down
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Originally posted by odinalcatraz odinalcatraz wrote:

Originally posted by Tom Ozric Tom Ozric wrote:

I rated Love Beach with 3 stars. Is that inappropriate ??

As long as nobody finds out! Smile
True story
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