Forum Home Forum Home > Site News, Newbies, Help and Improvements > Report abuse here
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Inappropriate Ratings
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Inappropriate Ratings
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 2223242526 46>
Author
Message
  Topic Search Topic Search  Topic Options Topic Options
Argonaught View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: June 04 2012
Location: Virginia
Status: Offline
Points: 1413 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Argonaught Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 25 2014 at 16:53
Originally posted by Kati Kati wrote:

The main fact here, we should take in consideration that this site needs a constant flow of activity and interest by newcomers to survive in order to stay at the top. Unfortunately the bogus ratings manipulation equally discredit the site.
However, I think it's important that we not make it even more difficult for newcomers to join, this is detrimental to the wellbeing of the site, in fact maybe we should facilitate this even more for newcomers to join and give more incentives for them to participate, however in terms of ratings I too think this method is being abused, maybe as a suggestion newcomers should only be able to rate albums after they have written at least 2 reviews?
There is no simple solution, we know this unfortunately, nor do I know how to fix this problem :( bah 
Hugs Hug

^I completely agree, and I am glad that you said this (because no-one here will listens to me) LOL I really want to see rating abuse stamped out .. preferably through prevention rather than playing whack-a-mole with someone who signs up under 15 different names. 

Anyone interested should be able to join, and to begin making good faith contributions to the discussions. Everyone knows that forum posts are personal opinions only, and takes them as such. But the PA average ratings are different; they either represent-, or appear to represent the prevalent opinion of the PA community as a whole. Thus, when people post their reviews and ratings, they de-facto speak on behalf of, well, everyone here. It's not unfair to ask them to wait until they are qualified to do so. No-one's gonna die. If they get upset and quit because they can't slap an album with a bunch of one-star ratings under different names, good riddance.  


Edited by Argonaught - October 25 2014 at 16:54
Back to Top
Angelo View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin

Joined: May 07 2006
Location: Italy
Status: Offline
Points: 13244 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Angelo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 27 2014 at 19:11
I reported a few more tonight. Not sure if anything can be done though - we devised the rating calculation to be such that ratings only count with a far lesser weight than reviews, and these are outweighed by collaborator reviews. Usually, that works, and it may be less work than removing the trolls. However, after 8 years I also tend to feel its about time to send out a bit of a stronger signal here...
ISKC Rock Radio
I stopped blogging and reviewing - so won't be handling requests. Promo's for ariplay can be sent to [email protected]
Back to Top
odinalcatraz View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: July 12 2010
Location: London
Status: Offline
Points: 347 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote odinalcatraz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 28 2014 at 08:04
Originally posted by Argonaught Argonaught wrote:

Originally posted by Kati Kati wrote:

The main fact here, we should take in consideration that this site needs a constant flow of activity and interest by newcomers to survive in order to stay at the top. Unfortunately the bogus ratings manipulation equally discredit the site.
However, I think it's important that we not make it even more difficult for newcomers to join, this is detrimental to the wellbeing of the site, in fact maybe we should facilitate this even more for newcomers to join and give more incentives for them to participate, however in terms of ratings I too think this method is being abused, maybe as a suggestion newcomers should only be able to rate albums after they have written at least 2 reviews?
There is no simple solution, we know this unfortunately, nor do I know how to fix this problem :( bah 
Hugs Hug

^I completely agree, and I am glad that you said this (because no-one here will listens to me) LOL I really want to see rating abuse stamped out .. preferably through prevention rather than playing whack-a-mole with someone who signs up under 15 different names. 

Anyone interested should be able to join, and to begin making good faith contributions to the discussions. Everyone knows that forum posts are personal opinions only, and takes them as such. But the PA average ratings are different; they either represent-, or appear to represent the prevalent opinion of the PA community as a whole. Thus, when people post their reviews and ratings, they de-facto speak on behalf of, well, everyone here. It's not unfair to ask them to wait until they are qualified to do so. No-one's gonna die. If they get upset and quit because they can't slap an album with a bunch of one-star ratings under different names, good riddance.  


Ha ha!!
I gave up getting involved in all this but I LOVE the "Whack-a-mole" comment. Brilliant!
Some one told me he didn't even need an email address to sign up. Isn't that a bit odd? No site has that weakness these days I thought.
http://www.corvusstone.com
Back to Top
aapatsos View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: November 11 2005
Location: Manchester, UK
Status: Offline
Points: 9226 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote aapatsos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 28 2014 at 14:29
Important not to set too many barriers for young members joining as said by Sonia. Progressively Wink, the site has tried to dis-incentivise the use of rating-only and I think we are getting there. Maybe some fine tuning is still required.
Back to Top
Bonnek View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: September 01 2009
Location: Belgium
Status: Offline
Points: 4521 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bonnek Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 29 2014 at 13:02
Originally posted by Angelo Angelo wrote:

I reported a few more tonight. Not sure if anything can be done though - we devised the rating calculation to be such that ratings only count with a far lesser weight than reviews, and these are outweighed by collaborator reviews. Usually, that works, and it may be less work than removing the trolls. However, after 8 years I also tend to feel its about time to send out a bit of a stronger signal here...


I'm not so sure how this whole weighted calculation works.
Take this album for instance as an example. It hasn't got too much reviews/ratings so calculation shouldn't be too difficult to simulate?

http://www.progarchives.com/album-reviews.asp?id=44375

This album has got 3 reviews
1 x 5 star rating by member
1 x 5 star rating by collaborator
1 x 4 star rating by collaborator

On top 52 ratings.

This gives an overal average is only 3.81, which is very low for PA standards and especially so if you look at the appreciation in the reviews.
Back to Top
Kati View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: September 10 2010
Location: Earth
Status: Offline
Points: 6253 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kati Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 30 2014 at 23:01
Originally posted by Bonnek Bonnek wrote:

Originally posted by Angelo Angelo wrote:

I reported a few more tonight. Not sure if anything can be done though - we devised the rating calculation to be such that ratings only count with a far lesser weight than reviews, and these are outweighed by collaborator reviews. Usually, that works, and it may be less work than removing the trolls. However, after 8 years I also tend to feel its about time to send out a bit of a stronger signal here...


I'm not so sure how this whole weighted calculation works.
Take this album for instance as an example. It hasn't got too much reviews/ratings so calculation shouldn't be too difficult to simulate?

http://www.progarchives.com/album-reviews.asp?id=44375

This album has got 3 reviews
1 x 5 star rating by member
1 x 5 star rating by collaborator
1 x 4 star rating by collaborator

On top 52 ratings.

This gives an overal average is only 3.81, which is very low for PA standards and especially so if you look at the appreciation in the reviews.



You peaked my interest Bonnek :) looked them up and so far only managed to hear bits on CD Universe, however this was enough for me to know I will not be able to judge them or their music. They are more death metal compared to my music preference Wink hugs Hug 
Back to Top
Dean View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout

Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Dean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 31 2014 at 02:49
Originally posted by Bonnek Bonnek wrote:

Originally posted by Angelo Angelo wrote:

I reported a few more tonight. Not sure if anything can be done though - we devised the rating calculation to be such that ratings only count with a far lesser weight than reviews, and these are outweighed by collaborator reviews. Usually, that works, and it may be less work than removing the trolls. However, after 8 years I also tend to feel its about time to send out a bit of a stronger signal here...


I'm not so sure how this whole weighted calculation works.
Take this album for instance as an example. It hasn't got too much reviews/ratings so calculation shouldn't be too difficult to simulate?

http://www.progarchives.com/album-reviews.asp?id=44375

This album has got 3 reviews
1 x 5 star rating by member
1 x 5 star rating by collaborator
1 x 4 star rating by collaborator

On top 52 ratings.

This gives an overal average is only 3.81, which is very low for PA standards and especially so if you look at the appreciation in the reviews.
The weightings are simple: 
rating only = x1
review = x10
collab review = x20

working out the average would be:
Quote
Warthur = 20 :: 20 x 5 = 100
UMUR  = 20 :: 20 x 4 = 80
alderbran well  = 10 :: 10 x 5 = 50
total 5 ratings = 13 :: 13 x 5 = 65
total 4 ratings =  6 ::   6 x 4 = 24
total 3 ratings = 12 ::  12 x 3 = 36
total 2 ratings = 10 ::  10 x 2 = 20
total 1 ratings =  6 ::   6 x 1 = 6
------ -------
totals  = 97 :: = 381
------ -------
therefore average = 381 / 97 = 3.93 (50 ratings)
There is a discrepancy between that and the published average of 3.81 (55 ratings) because the total hasn't been recalculated since 5 bogus ratings were deleted. (I suspect those were 3x1-star and 2x2-star)

To see whether the ratings are "fair" you need to look at the distribution of votes, this little bar-chart on each album page is far more informative and meaningful than any calculated average:

Quote
5-star 31% ************
4-star 15% ******
3-star 25% **********
2-star 17% ******
1-star 12% ****
The first thing this tells you is that the 3-star average is not wrong.

You would expect this to follow a "Normal" distribution but as you can see the number of 4-star ratings is lower than expected, which implies the 5-stars are higher than expected. This is not unusual or "wrong" because the sample size of 50 votes is too low to be statistically meaningful so is skewed by the number of "legitimate" fan votes (all albums attract a disproportionate number of 5-star ratings to begin with).
What?
Back to Top
Bonnek View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: September 01 2009
Location: Belgium
Status: Offline
Points: 4521 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bonnek Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 31 2014 at 04:06
Thanks for this!
Sound like they'll need another review to get this refreshed




Edited by Bonnek - October 31 2014 at 04:09
Back to Top
Argonaught View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: June 04 2012
Location: Virginia
Status: Offline
Points: 1413 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Argonaught Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 31 2014 at 05:41
Originally posted by Bonnek Bonnek wrote:

Thanks for this!
Sound like they'll need another review to get this refreshed



I can't remember if this was in this thread or somewhere else: I "accidentally" discovered that, after a few fake reviews have been removed, the system doesn't automatically recalculate the average rating. I went to my own review, changed the rating (e.g. from 4 to 3 stars), saved it, then changed the rating back to what it was (from 3 to 4 stars) and saved again. This way you don't need to wait for a new reviewer to trigger the recalculation. 
Back to Top
Kati View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: September 10 2010
Location: Earth
Status: Offline
Points: 6253 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Kati Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 31 2014 at 08:42
Positive feedback in terms of this new software update, the new thanks button love that! Also I seem not to have any problem whatsoever typing taking my time post and not having the text I typed disappear! Ha! I like it! I like this! A massive hug Hug
Back to Top
Xonty View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: June 23 2013
Location: Cornwall
Status: Offline
Points: 1759 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Xonty Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 01 2014 at 08:41
This guys reviews are pretty extreme - about 80% 5-star and 10% 1-star.

http://www.progarchives.com/Collaborators.asp?id=52858
Back to Top
Nogbad_The_Bad View Drop Down
Forum & Site Admin Group
Forum & Site Admin Group
Avatar
RIO/Avant/Zeuhl & Eclectic Team

Joined: March 16 2007
Location: Boston
Status: Offline
Points: 21593 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nogbad_The_Bad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 01 2014 at 09:06
Originally posted by Xonty Xonty wrote:

This guys reviews are pretty extreme - about 80% 5-star and 10% 1-star.

http://www.progarchives.com/Collaborators.asp?id=52858


Haha

Pavlovs Dog get one 5 star album, and 4 one start album. Apparently Dream Theater have done 33 5 star albums, singles and dvds!!


Edited by Nogbad_The_Bad - November 01 2014 at 09:07
Ian

Host of the Post-Avant Jazzcore Happy Hour on Progrock.com

https://podcasts.progrock.com/post-avant-jazzcore-happy-hour/
Back to Top
floflo79 View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: March 21 2013
Location: France
Status: Offline
Points: 245 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote floflo79 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 01 2014 at 11:15
http://www.progarchives.com/album.asp?id=47220

An user named Matt T rate The Endless River with 5 stars. Even if there's only 2 songs who came out.
Back to Top
aapatsos View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: November 11 2005
Location: Manchester, UK
Status: Offline
Points: 9226 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aapatsos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 01 2014 at 11:31
Remains to be seen if abuse on this (yet another new) entry is about to begin - hope not
Back to Top
Argonaught View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: June 04 2012
Location: Virginia
Status: Offline
Points: 1413 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Argonaught Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 01 2014 at 20:42
Originally posted by floflo79 floflo79 wrote:

http://www.progarchives.com/album.asp?id=47220

An user named Matt T rate The Endless River with 5 stars. Even if there's only 2 songs who came out.

Why even enable the rating/review feature before the album has been released? 
Back to Top
aapatsos View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: November 11 2005
Location: Manchester, UK
Status: Offline
Points: 9226 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aapatsos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 22 2014 at 15:46
This user seems to outright assign 1-star to every S Wilson and P Tree release there is out there...http://www.progarchives.com/Collaborators.asp?id=7677
Back to Top
timothy leary View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: December 29 2005
Location: Lilliwaup, Wa.
Status: Offline
Points: 5319 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote timothy leary Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 23 2014 at 11:11
http://www.progarchives.com/Collaborators.asp?id=49724&listreviews=rate&showall=true#reviews

Nothing wrong here.......evidently 2014 is a bad year  for prog
Back to Top
Tom Ozric View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: September 03 2005
Location: Olympus Mons
Status: Offline
Points: 15926 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tom Ozric Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 23 2014 at 13:45
I rated Love Beach with 3 stars. Is that inappropriate ??
Back to Top
odinalcatraz View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: July 12 2010
Location: London
Status: Offline
Points: 347 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote odinalcatraz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 23 2014 at 13:55
Originally posted by Tom Ozric Tom Ozric wrote:

I rated Love Beach with 3 stars. Is that inappropriate ??

As long as nobody finds out! Smile
http://www.corvusstone.com
Back to Top
Tom Ozric View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: September 03 2005
Location: Olympus Mons
Status: Offline
Points: 15926 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tom Ozric Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 23 2014 at 13:57
Originally posted by odinalcatraz odinalcatraz wrote:

Originally posted by Tom Ozric Tom Ozric wrote:

I rated Love Beach with 3 stars. Is that inappropriate ??

As long as nobody finds out! Smile
True story
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 2223242526 46>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down



This page was generated in 0.215 seconds.
Donate monthly and keep PA fast-loading and ad-free forever.