More significant to Prog, Magma or Kansas?

^ There have been a number of sites with Kobaïan dictionaries (some more complete than others).

https://genius.com/Magma-kobaian-dictionary-annotated

That said, Vander used that for the way it sounds for the music (he also has an appreciation for scat, the vocals I mean, not the other kind of scat). He wanted to use the Kobaïan vocals to be focused on more as an instrumental device than a literary one. That said, Magma is still very concept based and has a mythology.

I don't know of other bands that used Vander's, but various bands have used made-up languages/ phoenetics: Sigur Rós, and Koenji Hayakkei which while not a clone was created by Tatsuya Yoshida as a tribute to Zeuhl (the music of Magma). I would say that creativity, thinking outside of common expectations and conventions, is significant to Prog, and the approaches of Magma's influenced many bands and musicians, not just included in Zeuhl.

Edited by Logan - January 29 2024 at 13:13

Big Sky wrote: I sense a dig with the American AOR label you tossed out at Kansas and Styx (and by extension others) only being big in the USA (usually those bands found success in Canada too).

I wrote North America, relatively unknown (and "didn't sell" as in a couple of 4xplatinum albums etc in the USA and not even a silver platter anywhere else - similar thing for Styx but for CAN + US). I like and listen to plenty of Adult Oriented Rock , but people here react to the AOR term as if it's an insult. I got one "dig" (but not with you) that is that Americans often seem to think they "are the world". But it's mostly you poor americans that are/were tortured with Hootie and the Blowfish, Garth Brooks, Alabama, Toby Keith, even Billy Joel...

I mentioned Tatsuya Yoshida (a well-known Japanese artist in Prog circles) as being influenced by Magma before, and in fact Magma had a significant impact on Japan.

Yesterday I prepared for my son's birthday party (he just turned 17). We had many of his friends over at our house. His girlfriend is of Japanese heritage and speaks fluent Japanese, and one of his best friends is an exchange student over here from Japan. I worked in Japan and like the chance to speak with people in Japanese (but my Japanese is not great). I asked his male friend in Japanese if he has heard of Magma, and he paused and then answered "Hhaï". So cool!



However, I do realise that he probably meant something like "Hai" as in "Yes, I have heard of molten rock" instead of referring to the name of a song and a live album by Magma.... I really did ask him hoping to make the joke at some time here (that's PA forum dedication for you).

Edited by Logan - January 29 2024 at 16:04

^^Don't know if you know this, Greg. When Rush toured in Japan in the 80's, Neil tried to break up a domestic fight between a female and a tattooed male. No Japanese folks helped Neil because a tattooed male, they later found out, was a gang member and no locals wanted to get involved. Rush never played in Japan after this incident. Don't know if it's still like that in Japan, but that's deplorable.

Grumpyprogfan wrote: ^^Don't know if you know this, Greg. When Rush toured in Japan in the 80's, Neil tried to break up a domestic fight between a female and a tattooed male. No Japanese folks helped Neil because a tattooed male, they later found out, was a gang member and no locals wanted to get involved. Rush never played in Japan after this incident. Don't know if it's still like that in Japan, but that's deplorable.

Yeah, I heard something about that years ago, although I did not know that Peart had actually intervened rather than witnessed from the hotel. I might have thought that it was because of fear of the Yakuza or some gang (due to the tattoos) but I had heard it posited that it was spousal abuse (not heard how that was known or inferred). There is this sort of custom of not interfering with others and keeping to yourself. I was living and working in more of a country and suburban area as a teacher, rather than a place like Tokyo which is more known for dangerous figures, but even on my travels I never felt safer anywhere and I never observed any violence or even shouting matches or any altercations that I recall. My girlfriend and I would walk around late at night going to all sorts of places that I would be wary of where I live (and I live in an affluent neighbourhood). I did notice preferential treatment for men, by the way, which was win for me, but I did not like it.

Of course bad things can happen anywhere where people do not intervene, and I have witnessed similar things happen here in Vancouver. I have intervened a number of times (physically, which is super dangerous and I have been hurt, and more often by calling 911 and shouting at them). My wife got felt up on a very crowded train in Tokyo, but the man was not even Japanese.

Edited by Logan - January 29 2024 at 17:41

Edited by Saperlipopette! - January 29 2024 at 22:27

Depends on which side of the Atlantic one lives, methinks. I vote Magma, though I won't deny the significance of Kansas.

David_D wrote: Actually, I'd say, Magma has a very special status in the world of Prog as being the only originator of a whole and even quite  significant sub-genre.