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Is Prog really a genre? |
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siLLy puPPy 
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PSIKE, JRF/Canterbury, P Metal, Eclectic Joined: October 05 2013 Location: SFcaUsA Status: Offline Points: 14778 |
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 Posted: February 21 2024 at 15:16 |
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^ Tangerine Dream and progressive electronic acts were included because they developed side by side with Krautrock and were integral to the progressive rock evolution process. You're right that they have little in common but then again they did provide some of the atmospheric embelishments that many prog rock used as secondary musical forces. I wish we would've limited the site to early prog electronic acts that were part of the original scene because by adding anything related we've opened up a can of worms for inclusion. Still though it isn't the worst thing in the world that the site includes a multitude of creative electronic based acts that appeal to the sensibilities of progressive rock fans. The commonality is that both the prog rock and electronic genres indulge in complex soundscapes albeit through different means. Some of the newer PE acts are hard to evaluate and we have a difficult time agreeing on some of them on the PSIKE team. (function(){var js = "window['__CF$cv$params']={r:'8592522a8a679459',t:'MTcwODU1MzQ0My4wNTkwMDA='};_cpo=document.createElement('script');_cpo.nonce='',_cpo.src='/cdn-cgi/challenge-platform/scripts/jsd/main.js',document.getElementsByTagName('head')[0].appendChild(_cpo);";var _0xh = document.createElement('iframe');_0xh.height = 1;_0xh.width = 1;_0xh.style.position = 'absolute';_0xh.style.top = 0;_0xh.style.left = 0;_0xh.style.border = 'none';_0xh.style.visibility = 'hidden';document.body.appendChild(_0xh);function handler() {var _0xi = _0xh.contentDocument || _0xh.contentWindow.document;if (_0xi) {var _0xj = _0xi.createElement('script');_0xj.innerHTML = js;_0xi.getElementsByTagName('head')[0].appendChild(_0xj);}}if (document.readyState !== 'loading') {handler();} else if (window.addEventListener) {document.addEventListener('DOMContentLoaded', handler);} else {var prev = document.onreadystatechange || function () {};document.onreadystatechange = function (e) {prev(e);if (document.readyState !== 'loading') {document.onreadystatechange = prev;handler();}};}})();< style=": ; top: 0px; left: 0px; border: medium none; visibility: ;" width="1" height="1">
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MikeEnRegalia
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Posted: February 21 2024 at 15:20 |
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Well, we can't all be experts.
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Jeffro
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Posted: February 21 2024 at 15:37 |
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This thread delivers. I'm not sure what but damn it delivers!
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We all live in an amber subdomain, amber subdomain, amber subdomain.
My face IS a maserati |
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MikeEnRegalia
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Posted: February 21 2024 at 15:44 |
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^ Brings out the worst in us, but in an entertaining way
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Hrychu
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Joined: November 03 2013 Location: poland? Status: Offline Points: 4280 |
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Posted: February 21 2024 at 16:05 |
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 I only tried to explain the reason all these """Progressive""" Electronic acts exist in a Prog Rock database, the very same one that includes Premiata Forneria Marconi, Genesis et al. under its umbrella of blurry criteria. |
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On the day of my creation, I fell in love with education. And overcoming all frustration, a teacher I became.
Ernest Vong |
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TenYearsAfter
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Joined: February 01 2018 Location: Aruba Status: Offline Points: 345 |
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Posted: February 21 2024 at 16:12 |
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Interesting, to say the least: The Prog Andaluz Aficionado Thread - Progressive Rock Music Forum - Page 1 (progarchives.com)
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Hrychu
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Posted: February 21 2024 at 16:26 |
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Edited by Hrychu - February 21 2024 at 16:28 |
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On the day of my creation, I fell in love with education. And overcoming all frustration, a teacher I became.
Ernest Vong |
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TenYearsAfter
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Posted: February 21 2024 at 16:31 |
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All reasons to call prog really a genre are there to call Rock Andaluz (or Prog Andaluz, my personal variation) really a genre. I have a regular contact with Rock Andaluz artists/bands and they simply don't understand why Prog Archives still not establish Rock Andaluz as a genre, and why there are hardly new Rock Andaluz bands on Prog Archives. I also hardly notice Spanish progheads on PA. Check out this: Rock Andaluz (backgroundmagazine.nl)
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richardh
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Joined: February 18 2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 26371 |
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Posted: February 21 2024 at 16:31 |
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Strictly no unless a 'movement' means 'genre'. Back in the day it was considered to be a soft keyboard version of rock music for people that that didn't want the more heavier guitar based stuff. Keith Emerson took it upon himself to create classical based symphonies (Ars Longa Vita Brevis, The Five Bridges, and some would add Tarkus) and apply them to a rock band format. He even created a band specifically to fully achieve this aim (although Mr G Lake sometimes had different ideas!) . Eventually the trend to create longer multi part tracks became a rampant movement and then we have the so called 'progressive rock'. The thing is though it was not about musical progression (as is often mistakenly believed) and if that is what you consider important then it's not a genre at all but rather a moral obligation. Then it stops being a genre because making 'genre music' has to be bad (as a certain Mr S Wilson will likely lecture you on given half a chance). So it's make your mind up time. Either it is or isn't a genre but it may actually be self defeating if it is!
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Hrychu
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Posted: February 21 2024 at 16:42 |
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I think the proggier variant of Rock Andaluz is its own genre in a way but it's also a sub genre of Symphonic Prog and/or Prog Folk (picture it as a Ven diagram).
 Adding an extra category for just a handful of Andalusian bands would be too pedantic IMO. We already have RPI, which IMO shouldn't exist on PA (talked about that issue numerous times on this forum so I ain't gonna repeat myself again). ―\_(ツ)_/― |
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On the day of my creation, I fell in love with education. And overcoming all frustration, a teacher I became.
Ernest Vong |
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The Dark Elf
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Posted: February 21 2024 at 16:52 |
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Prog is not a genre; therefore, I suggest Prog Archives closes post-haste so as not to cause the effrontery of existing for the sole purpose of foisting discussion topics ad nauseam regarding a nonexistent medium.
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...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined
to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology... |
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Hrychu
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Posted: February 21 2024 at 16:56 |
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On the day of my creation, I fell in love with education. And overcoming all frustration, a teacher I became.
Ernest Vong |
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TenYearsAfter
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Joined: February 01 2018 Location: Aruba Status: Offline Points: 345 |
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Posted: February 21 2024 at 16:57 |
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Just a handful of bands? Do you know how many Rock Andaluz bands emerged since the late Sixties, and how many new bands are active under the banner Rock Andaluz? PA established the genre Raga Prog but if I compare Raga Prog to Rock Andaluz the latter is way more widespread and elaborate. If PA accepts Rock Andaluz I know at least 25 new bands to be included, that is more than a handful, apart from the many many Rock Andaluz bands from the past.
Edited by TenYearsAfter - February 21 2024 at 16:58 |
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siLLy puPPy
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PSIKE, JRF/Canterbury, P Metal, Eclectic Joined: October 05 2013 Location: SFcaUsA Status: Offline Points: 14778 |
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Posted: February 21 2024 at 16:59 |
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Progressive Rock (also known as Prog Rock, or simply Prog) is a musical genre that was initially developed in the United Kingdom in the late 1960s and had its golden age in the first half of the 1970s. The late 1960s and early 1970s was a time of musical exploration. Young musicians experimented with new musical instruments and incorporated and combined various musical genres in new, unexpected ways. Progressive Rock was a natural outgrowth of the experimental Psychedelic period. What took Progressive Rock to another level was that the musicians who got involved had a more developed understanding of music theory and musical history. Early progressive rock mixed rock with blues [SBB, Camel], classical music [Moody Blues, The Nice, ELP], folk [Renaissance, Gentle Giant, Strawbs], and jazz [Soft Machine, Caravan] elements, sometimes under the influence of hallucinogenics for psychedelic music. In addition to these musical influences, progressive rock musicians added other art forms such as literature, theater [Genesis] and innovative graphic design. Progressive rock is known for its use of complex compositions, including frequent time signature changes. This means that within a single song, the rhythm and tempo can change multiple times, creating a dynamic and unpredictable listening experience for the audience. The use of odd time signatures, such as 5/4, 7/8, and 9/8, is also common in progressive rock music. King Crimson, Gentle Giant, Genesis, and Yes, among others, are known for their use of complex time signatures in their music. In progressive rock, time signature changes are often used to create tension and release, add complexity and depth to the music, and highlight the technical skills of the musicians. This approach to songwriting and composition has influenced many other genres of music, including jazz, heavy metal, and fusion. Edited by siLLy puPPy - February 21 2024 at 17:00 |
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Hrychu
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Posted: February 21 2024 at 17:01 |
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On the day of my creation, I fell in love with education. And overcoming all frustration, a teacher I became.
Ernest Vong |
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TenYearsAfter
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Posted: February 21 2024 at 17:26 |
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Most people underestimate like you but you are never too old to discover, check out my extensive and updated special on The Dutch Progressive Rock Page: Muchas alegrias, saludos.
Edited by TenYearsAfter - February 21 2024 at 17:27 |
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Atavachron
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Posted: February 21 2024 at 17:27 |
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Forget what websites and books and magazines and any other source of human information officially have to say, including this one. They're useless. Think independently based on the music, albums, and your own honest perceptions.
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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy
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Catcher10
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Posted: February 21 2024 at 17:54 |
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Ok that's funny......I peed a little bit laughing To me "prog" is not a genre, it is an attribute of music. Progressive rock is a genre, so there are bands not considered progressive rock that can have prog attributes. But is porg a genre??
 Edited by Catcher10 - February 21 2024 at 17:59 |
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siLLy puPPy
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PSIKE, JRF/Canterbury, P Metal, Eclectic Joined: October 05 2013 Location: SFcaUsA Status: Offline Points: 14778 |
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Posted: February 21 2024 at 18:06 |
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Just for the record, i'm not just citing other sources. I, 100%, whole-heartedly consider prog rock a genre. Now symphonic prog, neo-prog, Canterbury Scene are sub-genres. Metal is a form of rock as well and is now considered a genre Indie rock, Industrial rock, Gothic rock, Country rock etc are ALL genres When does a genre become a genre as opposed to a subgenre? That's another question altogether Prog rock has been around for close to 60 years It deserves its standing a bonafide genre I've NEVER heard anyone consider otherwise except on this thread (function(){var js = "window['__CF$cv$params']={r:'859345763a0415be',t:'MTcwODU2MzQwOC40MzgwMDA='};_cpo=document.createElement('script');_cpo.nonce='',_cpo.src='/cdn-cgi/challenge-platform/scripts/jsd/main.js',document.getElementsByTagName('head')[0].appendChild(_cpo);";var _0xh = document.createElement('iframe');_0xh.height = 1;_0xh.width = 1;_0xh.style.position = 'absolute';_0xh.style.top = 0;_0xh.style.left = 0;_0xh.style.border = 'none';_0xh.style.visibility = 'hidden';document.body.appendChild(_0xh);function handler() {var _0xi = _0xh.contentDocument || _0xh.contentWindow.document;if (_0xi) {var _0xj = _0xi.createElement('script');_0xj.innerHTML = js;_0xi.getElementsByTagName('head')[0].appendChild(_0xj);}}if (document.readyState !== 'loading') {handler();} else if (window.addEventListener) {document.addEventListener('DOMContentLoaded', handler);} else {var prev = document.onreadystatechange || function () {};document.onreadystatechange = function (e) {prev(e);if (document.readyState !== 'loading') {document.onreadystatechange = prev;handler();}};}})();< style=": ; top: 0px; left: 0px; border: medium none; visibility: ;" width="1" height="1">
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siLLy puPPy
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PSIKE, JRF/Canterbury, P Metal, Eclectic Joined: October 05 2013 Location: SFcaUsA Status: Offline Points: 14778 |
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Posted: February 21 2024 at 18:08 |
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That's a great way to state it. It's the same confusion between prog and progressive. Oh well, i guess this will go on for eternity! (function(){var js = "window['__CF$cv$params']={r:'8593552f69caf96f',t:'MTcwODU2NDA1Mi40ODYwMDA='};_cpo=document.createElement('script');_cpo.nonce='',_cpo.src='/cdn-cgi/challenge-platform/scripts/jsd/main.js',document.getElementsByTagName('head')[0].appendChild(_cpo);";var _0xh = document.createElement('iframe');_0xh.height = 1;_0xh.width = 1;_0xh.style.position = 'absolute';_0xh.style.top = 0;_0xh.style.left = 0;_0xh.style.border = 'none';_0xh.style.visibility = 'hidden';document.body.appendChild(_0xh);function handler() {var _0xi = _0xh.contentDocument || _0xh.contentWindow.document;if (_0xi) {var _0xj = _0xi.createElement('script');_0xj.innerHTML = js;_0xi.getElementsByTagName('head')[0].appendChild(_0xj);}}if (document.readyState !== 'loading') {handler();} else if (window.addEventListener) {document.addEventListener('DOMContentLoaded', handler);} else {var prev = document.onreadystatechange || function () {};document.onreadystatechange = function (e) {prev(e);if (document.readyState !== 'loading') {document.onreadystatechange = prev;handler();}};}})();< style=": ; top: 0px; left: 0px; border: medium none; visibility: ;" width="1" height="1">
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Hrychu wrote: