Crimson are good shocker!!

meurglysIII wrote: Cygnus X-2 wrote: BaldFriede wrote: ... and it was not for nothing that Steve Hackett did renditions of "I talk to the Wind" and "In the Court of the Crimson King" in some of his concerts (with the help of some King Crimson musicians, like Ian McDonald and John Wetton) I have the Tokyo Tapes dvd and those renditions are great, I only wish though that they had played some Crimson from the Wetton era (although the one Asia song and the song Battlelines from one of Wetton's solo albums were quite good). Did somebody say ASIA????????

Yep, Heat of the Moment... and I liked that rendition.

^Possibly, I haven't listened to that much Asia, though, so I'm not really sure.

Cygnus X-2 wrote: ^Possibly, I haven't listened to that much Asia, though, so I'm not really sure.

I can erm... cough cough "recommend" you their greatest hits, if you'd like. It pretty much has all the songs from the first two albums already on it.

valravennz wrote: I am not too familiar with their post-1975 recordings apart from "Discipline".

Let me sum up their post Discipline studio albums for you.

Beat: Their "poppiest" album. Contains some really strong tracks in Neal and Jack and Me, Heartbeat, Waiting Man (being the best song on the album and better interpreted live, with 10 minute versions being available nowadays, and Sartori in Tangier).

Three of a Perfect Pair: Half of it is Belew penned "pop" tunes, and the other half is almost avant-garde instrumental music. Strong tracks are Three of a Perfect Pair, Industry, Larks' Tongue in Aspic Pt. III.

THRAK: Perhaps their most avant-garde album. Contains some very avant-garde jazz-metalish instrumentals and very strong vocal tracks in between. Strong tracks in Dinosaur, Thrak, One Time, People, Walking on Air, and VROOM/Coda Marine 1945.

The ConstruKction of Light: A heavier version of Thrak. Contains of reworking of Fracture, simply titled FracKtured, and some of the most bizarre Belew lyrics on record. Larks' Tongue in Aspic Pt. IV is a very nice track as well as Coda: I Have a Dream.

The Power to Believe: In the same vein as TCoL, mainly instrumental (there are 3 tracks with vocal, the rest is instrumental). The instrumentals have different feels to them, Level Five has a very Thrak feel to it, while EleKtrik has a very TCoL feel to it, while Dangerous Curves has a very spacey feel to it. The vocal tracks are also very strong.

In a word, Belew era Crimson is great stuff as long as you can get past the random "K" in certain songs.

Cygnus X-2 wrote: valravennz wrote: I am not too familiar with their post-1975 recordings apart from "Discipline". Let me sum up their post Discipline studio albums for you. Beat: Their "poppiest" album. Contains some really strong tracks in Neal and Jack and Me, Heartbeat, Waiting Man (being the best song on the album and better interpreted live, with 10 minute versions being available nowadays, and Sartori in Tangier). Three of a Perfect Pair: Half of it is Belew penned "pop" tunes, and the other half is almost avant-garde instrumental music. Strong tracks are Three of a Perfect Pair, Industry, Larks' Tongue in Aspic Pt. III. THRAK: Perhaps their most avant-garde album. Contains some very avant-garde jazz-metalish instrumentals and very strong vocal tracks in between. Strong tracks in Dinosaur, Thrak, One Time, People, Walking on Air, and VROOM/Coda Marine 1945. The ConstruKction of Light: A heavier version of Thrak. Contains of reworking of Fracture, simply titled FracKtured, and some of the most bizarre Belew lyrics on record. Larks' Tongue in Aspic Pt. IV is a very nice track as well as Coda: I Have a Dream. The Power to Believe: In the same vein as TCoL, mainly instrumental (there are 3 tracks with vocal, the rest is instrumental). The instrumentals have different feels to them, Level Five has a very Thrak feel to it, while EleKtrik has a very TCoL feel to it, while Dangerous Curves has a very spacey feel to it. The vocal tracks are also very strong. In a word, Belew era Crimson is great stuff as long as you can get past the random "K" in certain songs.

 - Thanks for the synopsis of each of those albums. I have heard that "The Power to Believe" and "The ConstruKction of Light" are both very good albums. Will be investigating further. Cheers

BaldFriede wrote: Well, I don't think it has dated at all, and I still listen to it often and enjoy it every time. And you misunderstand my comment about "right perspective"; that only refers to your criticism of the "meandering 60s psychedelia". In fact these "meandering psychedelia" are very much loved by me, and I miss them in many of today's albums (which I call "trite"). I also have a different name for these "meandering psychedelia"; I call them "free flights of imagination".

meanwhile (I'm quite enjoying this argument - and please don't take it as baiting, I'm just interested in the debate) Friede again mentions "right perspective". What is the right perspective? How do I attain that perspective to the point where "meandering psychedlia" becomes "free flights of imagination". I don't understand your point regarding perspective?

Thanks for the overview, Cygnus. I have all of KC's albums but Beat, Perfect Pair, and Thrak, and was curious to see what they sounded like
Now the only challenge left is to scour all of the sh*tty CD stores in my city to find them

BaldFriede wrote: arcer wrote: BaldFriede wrote: Well, I don't think it has dated at all, and I still listen to it often and enjoy it every time. And you misunderstand my comment about "right perspective"; that only refers to your criticism of the "meandering 60s psychedelia". In fact these "meandering psychedelia" are very much loved by me, and I miss them in many of today's albums (which I call "trite"). I also have a different name for these "meandering psychedelia"; I call them "free flights of imagination". meanwhile (I'm quite enjoying this argument - and please don't take it as baiting, I'm just interested in the debate) Friede again mentions "right perspective". What is the right perspective? How do I attain that perspective to the point where "meandering psychedlia" becomes "free flights of imagination". I don't understand your point regarding perspective? I'll answer your question about "perspective" with a quote from Japanese tea-master Kobori Enshu: "At first I praised the artist for his paintings. Now I praise myself for appreciating what the artist has chosen for me".

That's just nonsense! And egomaniacal. And evasive. I'd rather praise the artist for producing music that still sounded viable rather than congratulate myself for raiding the internet for a pseudo-mystical quote from a japanese bloke with a PG Tips fetish. I might as well say ITCOTCK is rubbish because as the great Japanese sensei Mr Miyagi said: "wax on, wax off."
Anyway I have never yet met any real artist who produced/chose art for the people who consume it. They do it to please themselves.


Edited by arcer

arcer wrote:   How do I attain that perspective to the point where "meandering psychedlia" becomes "free flights of imagination". I don't understand your point regarding perspective?

I don't think it's something you attain. Either it happens, or it doesn't. Have you ever listened to something for days, week, months, even years, and just didn't "get it"? And then one day, all of a sudden, it clicks? Happens to me a lot. Sometimes it doesn't even happen while I'm hearing it. Sometimes it happens when I wake up in the morning, or when I hear something on the radio. All of a sudden, my perspective changes.

It also happens the other way. Sometimes I'll anticipate listening to something I haven't heard in awhile, and then when I listen to it there's no gratification. Sometimes this is permanent.

The point is, I don't think it's something that I consciously control. It just happens. Maybe someday you'll realize you really like ITCOTCK. Maybe someday Freide won't care for it much. You never know.

Alright, the joke about Mr Miyagi was just being silly and I do understand your comments about perpective. When I was younger I just didn't get a lot of jazz etc (truth be told, I still don't get a lot of it) and I'll admit that your ears can be opened. However, there comes a time when you have to admit defeat. I've spent six years or so listening to it and to me it's still a poor album. It doesn't matter how much anyone says 'one day you'll understand, young padwan' (though I'm probably older than both of you) it remains, for me, an undistinguished listen and I remain fully convinced that King Crimson became a better and more interesting band in latter years, and that is as valid a point of view as one lauding their debut as the lodestone of all prog. Ultimately it's all about personal taste isn't it? And it just so happens that yours is..... obviously wrong
Seriously, it's an interesting point in regard to music. Just how long is long enough to give an album/artist? Should it not appeal at first listen? Sure there are levels of understanding and of appreciation but isn't there some immediate connection you should make with the sound, some visceral reaction that makes you want to delve deeper? I certainly think so. If I have to spend years waiting for the penny to drop then I think the artist has kind of failed.