Can and Magma overlooked?

[/QUOTE Wooty] Personally, I like my music to be more conceptually challenging than that; that's why bands like Can, Magma, or Soft Machine and Amon Duul II with their twisted musical designs give me such a huge thrill.(what does that say about me?)
[/QUOTE]

I don't know. You are probably an experienced music listener, and maybe not just prog? And that is of course; a good thing.

I work in a studio, and can listen to my own music all day. I seriously think I wouldn't have the time to discover either Magma, UZ or any complex classical or jazz... if it wasn't for that. At home with my girlfriend I never put on Zeuhl or RIO music. It doesn't work for any of us. We love a lot of classic pop, rock and jazz from all decades, so its no problem.

I'm very happy you think what I wrote made sense.




Edited by Rocktopus

Conrad Schnitzler is over-looked, as are many other German artists. Magma and Can are quite famous at what they do, and they surely do it well.  To say they are overlooked though, may be stretching it....

Tholomyes wrote: I like Can's Tago Mago, not much but it's an ok album. MDK from Magma is very compley and i've still listeting to it because i don't get it yet. However, it's simply a matter of taste and if that high ratings for bands like DT and TMV are an insult to you, just ignore it.

Taste is one way of looking at it. But it is impossible for me to say "Can and Magma are just two bands that many people seem to like". Can is so, so ahead of its time, and Magma is such a strong, free band, both are quite rare and inspirated, and creativity is not an issue. While many bands reached for inspiration in musical forms from the past (Jethro Tull; sorry there, Jethro fans), CAN and MAGMA (and other bands, such as Art Bears, just to mention one) went directly into experimentation, in order to bring weird, advanced sounds into the world. I think I'm getting a bit emotional here, perhaps an scientific aproach would do better in order to describe what I think about creation and how does that validate the work of any artist. Anyway, on this bands, it is not just a matter of taste. I don't like many things, but I'm still capable of recognize conceptual and poetic structures on any form of art, beyond my own taste for things...

Grobschnitt aren't Krautrock.

By the way, that Can set is quite , but I bet it's a bit pricey. I've seen them on eBay, and the prices seem to be around $250+, but I can't remember.

Rashikal wrote: if youre telling me that can and magma arent overlooked because they had a few bad releases... welcome to all your favorite prog bands! every popular prog band here has released a sh*t album

If that's in reply to me, that's not even remotely close to what I said. If it's in reply to someone else, I have no idea who said anything like that either!

Manunkind wrote: Judging by the samples provided here they sound quite cool, but they don't live up to the hype IMO (yes, there is a hype surrounding them). Especially Jaki Liebezeit's drumming sounded more interesting on paper...

Well... Ive got to disagree with u there... Not so much about the hype and influence that can has brought upon many musicians, but about Jaki's drumming.  In fact, that was the 'hook' that pulled me into can.  Hes not renown for his playing par sae, as he dosen't focus on that as much as for his ability to read a melody and create a rhythm to accompany it.  And it can be any rhythm too, the repetoire he had was quite large (and I only have 3 can albums.... am eagerly awaiting more).  Sure, he dosent do 'runs' or solos, but he holds a rhythm and drives it to its conclusion more so than most other drummers that I can recall (most drummers tend to rely on the other band members to finish the journey for them). 

Enjoy whatever turns thou on.

Edited by edible_buddha

edible_buddha wrote: Manunkind wrote: Judging by the samples provided here they sound quite cool, but they don't live up to the hype IMO (yes, there is a hype surrounding them). Especially Jaki Liebezeit's drumming sounded more interesting on paper...  Well... Ive got to disagree with u there... Not so much about the hype and influence that can has brought upon many musicians, but about Jaki's drumming.  In fact, that was the 'hook' that pulled me into can.  Hes not good for his playing par sae, but for his ability to read a melody and create a rhythm to accompany it.  Sure, he dosent do 'runs' or solos, but he holds a rhythm and drives it to its conclusion more so than most other drummers that I can recall (most drummers tend to rely on the other band members to finish the journey for them).  Enjoy whatever turns thou on.

Sorry, didn't see your post.

I agree with you generally - the point is whenever I listen to him, I can't help thinking that he could have done what he did better, if you know what I'm saying... it's like he's being Jaki Liebezeit only in 75%. Not because he's not soloing or whatever - simply because that pounding rhythm is only 75% of him, whereas I can sort of imagine another  pounding rhythm that would be Jaki Liebezeit in 100%. Hope I'm making sense...

Edited by Manunkind

Both were incredibly advanced for their time.

Holger Czukay's production on Can's early albums was way ahead of its time, especially when you realise that up to 1973 everything was recorded on 2 track in a disused cinema. They also had a near telepathic interplay, as can be heard on Peel Sessions, Radio Waves and Live (all live recordings). Jaki Liebezeit's drumming was not particularly flashy, but his metronomic precision was uncanny.

Magma were doing incredibly advanced stuff rhythmically - Chris Cutler said that they were the first rock band he ever heard use a 5:4 rhythm (that's five evenly paced beats in the space of four, not 5/4 time). To hear just how complex they could be, listen to Didier Lockwood's violin solo during the version of Kontarkohsz on Live:Hhai and try to keep track of the different rhythms each musician is playing.

It's also fair to say that both bands produced albums that don't sound dated 30 or more years on. As good as their more mainstream contemporaries were, most Genesis, Yes, Tull and ELP from the early to mid 70s sounds very much of its time, whereas Can and Magma (along with a few others like Faust) still sound innovative.   

Like I said before, I'm only familiar with the stuff I found here, so my opinions may very well be premature... I really can't hear these groundbreaking elements in their music. I don't deny they are there - they just don't sound like anything extraordinary to me. Both bands sound pleasant enough, and that's the problem. They're simply pleasant. From what I had been told I was expecting something more 'out there', for want of a better word. Their concepts seem very interesting, but it's like they usually only managed to express these concepts in 70-80%. It's hardly a problem with Can and Magma only, I hear something like this in many other bands. But these are my ears' impressions only...

^ You're welcome.

Edited by edible_buddha