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Chris S View Drop Down
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Points: 7028 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 02 2011 at 21:42
Possibly......or just fog on barrow downs......
<font color=Brown>Music - The Sound Librarian

...As I venture through the slipstream, between the viaducts in your dreams...[/COLOR]
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Points: 221 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 02 2011 at 22:03
Originally posted by Ronnie Pilgrim Ronnie Pilgrim wrote:

^Thanks, Bo. You are Bo Hansson using the screen name Chris S, right?
Bosse is with the dead.
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maani View Drop Down
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Points: 2632 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 03 2011 at 10:59
Lozlan:
 
(I apologize to all for taking the conversation slightly off-topic again, but I cannot let Lozlan's comments go unanswered.)
 
For someone so "protective" of Tolkien, your dislike of the Bakshi film - and patricularly your claim that the Jackson version was more faithful - is odd.  In fact, Bakshi's version is FAR more faithful to the material it covers than Jackson's versions.  Just a few examples.  Jackson deliberately weaves the Aragorn/Arwen story (which is an appendix to the trilogy) into the film, creating scenes that are not only not faithful to the trilogy, but actually bog down the story.  Also, Bakshi correctly ascribes the rising of the Anduin against the Black Riders to Elrond (not Arwen!), and the "horse waves" to Gandalf (not Arwen!).  As well, Bakshi's rendering of the Council of Elrond (the discussion of the fate of the ring) is LEAGUES moe accurate than Jackson's.  Finally, Bakshi sticks far more faithfully to the actual dialogue in the trilogy, where Jackson kepts perhaps 50%.
 
Jackson's trilogy is certainly fabulous, and deserves its place in the pantheon of great cinematic achievements, in many ways.  But it is NOT as "faithful" to the books as Baskhi is.
 
Peace.
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Prog Geo View Drop Down
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Points: 2555 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 03 2011 at 11:05
Caravan - In the land of grey and pink
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Points: 221 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 03 2011 at 13:20
Okay then, I'll swallow: what does that particular Caravan have to do with Tolkers?
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maani View Drop Down
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Points: 2632 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 03 2011 at 14:46
BTW, today (Jan. 3) is Tolkien's birthday...
 
(Also, I didn't see any mention of Zep's "Ramble On"...)
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Points: 1584 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 03 2011 at 20:46
From In Elven Lands, this is one of my favorite tracks on the album and quite possibly the best Jon Anderson track ever. I couldn't find a video of it anywhere though and I can't post my mp3 of it, so here's the amazon preview of it. Sorry I couldn't get the full song.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/recsradio/radio/B000BSZA9M/ref=pd_krex_dp_001_012?ie=UTF8&track=012&disc=001
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Points: 1584 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 03 2011 at 20:47
Originally posted by Baggra Baggra wrote:

Okay then, I'll swallow: what does that particular Caravan have to do with Tolkers?


hmmmm.... nothing?
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Chris S View Drop Down
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Points: 7028 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 03 2011 at 21:01
^ You have to love the album and concept to really know get what he is sayingApprove

Edited by Chris S - January 03 2011 at 21:02
<font color=Brown>Music - The Sound Librarian

...As I venture through the slipstream, between the viaducts in your dreams...[/COLOR]
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Points: 2 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 04 2011 at 16:25
Hey guys,
our band, Gandalf's Fist, had a hell of a lot of tolkien influences (duh!) but we've somehow moved away from that for our latest recording project as the percussionist wanted to record a concept album that he'd written about a fascist frog that befriends a talking monkey.....i miss the hobbits myself!
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Prog Geo View Drop Down
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Points: 2555 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 04 2011 at 16:46
I want to explain something.The lyrics of Winter wine and the artwork of In the land of grey and pink are influenced by Tolkien.Generally it contains Tolkien-esque fantasy.
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Points: 1584 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 04 2011 at 21:08
Well if someone's obsession for Tolkien and obsession for music combined and had a child which controlled their mind then ate them, it might look like this:


http://www.tolkien-music.com/



Edited by Eärendil - January 04 2011 at 21:09
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Points: 12858 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 04 2011 at 22:24
Originally posted by Eärendil Eärendil wrote:

From In Elven Lands, this is one of my favorite tracks on the album and
quite possibly the best Jon Anderson track ever. I couldn't find a video
of it anywhere though and I can't post my mp3 of it, so here's the
amazon preview of it. Sorry I couldn't get the full song.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/recsradio/radio/B000BSZA9M/ref=pd_krex_dp_001_012?ie=UTF8&track=012&disc=001




I've been curious about this album for a while, and having heard this samples makes me want to get it even more... but it seems it is a bit too expensive on Amazon
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Points: 1584 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 04 2011 at 23:11
Originally posted by Dellinger Dellinger wrote:

Originally posted by Eärendil Eärendil wrote:

From In Elven Lands, this is one of my favorite tracks on the album and
quite possibly the best Jon Anderson track ever. I couldn't find a video
of it anywhere though and I can't post my mp3 of it, so here's the
amazon preview of it. Sorry I couldn't get the full song.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/recsradio/radio/B000BSZA9M/ref=pd_krex_dp_001_012?ie=UTF8&track=012&disc=001




I've been curious about this album for a while, and having heard this samples makes me want to get it even more... but it seems it is a bit too expensive on Amazon


They have a couple imports for $20.  That's the cheapest you're gonna find them for. And just so you know, there are only a few tracks with Jon Anderson, though the whole album is excellent.
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maani View Drop Down
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Points: 2632 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 05 2011 at 08:08
Prog Geo:
 
"The lyrics of Winter Wine and the artwork of In the Land of Grey and Pink are influenced by Tolkien.  Generally, it contains Tolkien-esque fantasy."
 
Re Winter Wine, not so.  Not every lyric that includes dragons is Tolkien-esque.  There were no "knights in golden armor" in LOTR, no "maids" saved from dragons, etc.  The lyrics certainly have a medieval quality, but, no, they are not about anything Tolkien-esque.  As for the artwork, I suppose one could interpret it as The Shire on acid (though hobbit homes did not have thatched roofs).  But that may or may not be what was intended.
 
Peace.
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Points: 2555 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 05 2011 at 08:16
Sorry guys for telling you wrong things.AngryI want you all to know something.I don't write something if I'm not sure or if I haven't seen something.Ok!!!
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Points: 1584 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 05 2011 at 16:49
Originally posted by Prog Geo Prog Geo wrote:

Sorry guys for telling you wrong things.AngryI want you all to know something.I don't write something if I'm not sure or if I haven't seen something.Ok!!!


I forgive you Big smile
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Points: 2555 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 05 2011 at 16:55
Good for you!!!Angry
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Points: 536 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 05 2011 at 20:02
Originally posted by maani maani wrote:

Lozlan:
 
(I apologize to all for taking the conversation slightly off-topic again, but I cannot let Lozlan's comments go unanswered.)
 
For someone so "protective" of Tolkien, your dislike of the Bakshi film - and patricularly your claim that the Jackson version was more faithful - is odd.  In fact, Bakshi's version is FAR more faithful to the material it covers than Jackson's versions.  Just a few examples.  Jackson deliberately weaves the Aragorn/Arwen story (which is an appendix to the trilogy) into the film, creating scenes that are not only not faithful to the trilogy, but actually bog down the story.  Also, Bakshi correctly ascribes the rising of the Anduin against the Black Riders to Elrond (not Arwen!), and the "horse waves" to Gandalf (not Arwen!).  As well, Bakshi's rendering of the Council of Elrond (the discussion of the fate of the ring) is LEAGUES moe accurate than Jackson's.  Finally, Bakshi sticks far more faithfully to the actual dialogue in the trilogy, where Jackson kepts perhaps 50%.
 
Jackson's trilogy is certainly fabulous, and deserves its place in the pantheon of great cinematic achievements, in many ways.  But it is NOT as "faithful" to the books as Baskhi is.
 
Peace.


I'm well aware of the differences and similarities between these texts.  I had read/watched them all more times than there are rings in the trunk of Methuselah.  Nor do I remember making any comments about the 'faithfulness' of an adaptation, per se - the most loyal adaptation of The Lion, The Witch, and The Wardrobe is the hideous and nigh-unwatchable animated version, which quotes the source text verbatim.  Adherence to a text does not, in any way, equate artistry. 

The Bakshi adaptation is, to my eyes, a complete misunderstanding of the point and purpose of Tolkien's text.  It contains no beauty or subtlety.  The Jackson adaptations do manage, on occasion, to capture the essence of a moment (primarily in the first film; Jackson's Return of the King is so loaded down with chronological inconsistencies and invented material that I hardly feel like it constitutes a proper adaptation).  This is all in the vein of the first two Harry Potter films, directed by that perennial clunker Chris Columbus.  Philosopher's Stone and Chamber of Secrets were highly criticized at the time for slavishly following the plots of the books without contributing anything beyond the scope of those texts.  They remain the most unwatchable/most devoted films in the series.

Forgive any sharpness in this post.  Had a very bad day.  I similarly extend yon olive branch.  If the Bakshi does something for you, kudos.  I just can't imagine watching those sloppy, buffoonish hobbit portrayals without bursting into laughter and/or rage.


Edited by Lozlan - January 05 2011 at 20:04
Certified Obscure Prog Fart.

The Loose Palace of Exile - My first novel, The Mask of Tamrel, now available on Amazon and Kindle
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Points: 1584 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 05 2011 at 21:52
Originally posted by Lozlan Lozlan wrote:

Originally posted by maani maani wrote:

Lozlan:
 
(I apologize to all for taking the conversation slightly off-topic again, but I cannot let Lozlan's comments go unanswered.)
 
For someone so "protective" of Tolkien, your dislike of the Bakshi film - and patricularly your claim that the Jackson version was more faithful - is odd.  In fact, Bakshi's version is FAR more faithful to the material it covers than Jackson's versions.  Just a few examples.  Jackson deliberately weaves the Aragorn/Arwen story (which is an appendix to the trilogy) into the film, creating scenes that are not only not faithful to the trilogy, but actually bog down the story.  Also, Bakshi correctly ascribes the rising of the Anduin against the Black Riders to Elrond (not Arwen!), and the "horse waves" to Gandalf (not Arwen!).  As well, Bakshi's rendering of the Council of Elrond (the discussion of the fate of the ring) is LEAGUES moe accurate than Jackson's.  Finally, Bakshi sticks far more faithfully to the actual dialogue in the trilogy, where Jackson kepts perhaps 50%.
 
Jackson's trilogy is certainly fabulous, and deserves its place in the pantheon of great cinematic achievements, in many ways.  But it is NOT as "faithful" to the books as Baskhi is.
 
Peace.


I'm well aware of the differences and similarities between these texts.  I had read/watched them all more times than there are rings in the trunk of Methuselah.  Nor do I remember making any comments about the 'faithfulness' of an adaptation, per se - the most loyal adaptation of The Lion, The Witch, and The Wardrobe is the hideous and nigh-unwatchable animated version, which quotes the source text verbatim.  Adherence to a text does not, in any way, equate artistry. 

The Bakshi adaptation is, to my eyes, a complete misunderstanding of the point and purpose of Tolkien's text.  It contains no beauty or subtlety.  The Jackson adaptations do manage, on occasion, to capture the essence of a moment (primarily in the first film; Jackson's Return of the King is so loaded down with chronological inconsistencies and invented material that I hardly feel like it constitutes a proper adaptation).  This is all in the vein of the first two Harry Potter films, directed by that perennial clunker Chris Columbus.  Philosopher's Stone and Chamber of Secrets were highly criticized at the time for slavishly following the plots of the books without contributing anything beyond the scope of those texts.  They remain the most unwatchable/most devoted films in the series.

Forgive any sharpness in this post.  Had a very bad day.  I similarly extend yon olive branch.  If the Bakshi does something for you, kudos.  I just can't imagine watching those sloppy, buffoonish hobbit portrayals without bursting into laughter and/or rage.


That does bring up an excellent point about the feel of the adaption.  Although there are some parts of the Jackson films that feel "Hollywood", I think overall it has that epic, natural and innocent feel of Tolkien's world.  That said, Baskhi's adaption was perhaps good for the technological limits of the time, and truer to the book, but something is missing from it IMO.

Similarly, I tried the Lord of the Rings Online MMPORG demo, and I couldn't do it.  All the positive reviews for it didn't change the fact that it wasn't Middle Earth.  It was a typical run and collect items for a reward and slowly level up, video game, with no feel of delicacy. 

I think we need to just appreciate the different aspects in which adaptions succeed and not be too critical (not saying that you guys are).  All of them get things right and get things wrong.  Some get more wrong than right (the animated movie with the singing elf in Rivendell).  That's my take, though I totally understand when people feel insulted by adaptions that twist the story too much.
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