Why even american prog bands dont have good vocals - Progressive Rock Music Forum

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Big Ears

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Posted: September 29 2011 at 05:10

I think James LaBrie is American, he's a good progressive rock singer and he's made a worthwhile career for himself.

Edited by Big Ears - September 29 2011 at 05:13

rdtprog

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Posted: September 29 2011 at 05:23

In the progressive rock genre, i think it's a fair statement to say that "in general" american prog bands dont have good vocals, but there's always exception to the rule : Echolyn, Neal Morse comes to my mind...

thehallway View Drop Down

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Posted: September 29 2011 at 10:35

Am I the only one thinking this thread is really racist?????

Slaughternalia View Drop Down

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Posted: September 29 2011 at 11:06

thehallway wrote:

Am I the only one thinking this thread is really racist?????

I hope you're trolling

I'm so mad that you enjoy a certain combination of noises that I don't

thehallway View Drop Down

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Posted: September 29 2011 at 11:19

Slaughternalia wrote:

thehallway wrote:

Am I the only one thinking this thread is really racist?????

I hope you're trolling

Why? It's a genuine point.

Disregarding somebody's music (or an element of it) just because of nationality..... is racist.

Logan

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Posted: September 29 2011 at 11:24

Big Ears wrote:

I think James LaBrie is American, he's a good progressive rock singer and he's made a worthwhile career for himself.

He's North American at least -- from Canada. Whether or nor not he's a good singer depends on one's perspective.

thehallway wrote:

Slaughternalia wrote:

thehallway wrote:

Am I the only one thinking this thread is really racist?????

I hope you're trolling

Why? It's a genuine point.

Disregarding somebody's music (or an element of it) just because of nationality..... is racist.

Racist means something different to you than it does to me. The US has citizens of many different races.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

As for American Prog bands vocals: there are many that I don't care for from the US that have a ballady AOR or arena rock style. I really sislike the vocals in bands such as Spock's Beard (but then i don't like the music either). In so called prog folk, avant-prog and "progressive jazz rock", I can think of many US singers that I like, but not so many who play more symphonic styles of so-called Prog.

Edited by Logan - September 29 2011 at 11:27

"Questions are a burden to others; answers a prison for oneself" (The Prisoner, 1967).

Guldbamsen View Drop Down

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Posted: September 29 2011 at 11:37

I think Phideaux has a very nice voice. He´s not Demitrio Stratos, but then again who is?

And what about Beefheart? An acquired taste for sure, but I happen to think that he´s one of the finest blues/poetry singers ever to come out of the states.

That was two in under 4 min, and I´m pretty pooped, so there´s got to be more out there, but then again if you think Matthew Parmenter has a bad voice....

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rogerthat

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Posted: September 29 2011 at 12:11

thehallway wrote:

Slaughternalia wrote:

thehallway wrote:

Am I the only one thinking this thread is really racist?????

I hope you're trolling

Why? It's a genuine point.

Disregarding somebody's music (or an element of it) just because of nationality..... is racist.

It has more to do with predominant influences than nationality or racism. The kind of singers in American prog that the OP seems to be referring to just carry over generic hard rock/AOR vocals to prog which doesn't work well. For me, it doesn't anyway. There are some genuine cultural differences between America and Europe in this matter. As with Motown, America mass produces singers of high capability but lacking distinct personality while British singers have often compensated for lack of a great tone or massive range with good projection of a distinct identity. Of course, as I said, it's cultural, so it's all down to how you perceive these cultural aspects. But it's not a point entirely devoid of merit.

desistindo View Drop Down

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Posted: September 29 2011 at 12:13

awaken77 wrote:

cstack3 wrote:

We DO have quite a bit of domestic prog in the USA, but it is my experience is that it tends to be more instrumental, jazz-rock fusion and avant garde vs. symphonic. Fareed Haque's "Math Games," California Guitar Trio, the newest version of Return to Forever etc. are stunning in their creativity and talent level, but nary a syllable to be heard....

Good point.Prog is such a genre, where vocals are somewhat seconday to the music. That's not true for other genres: for example for heavy metal band, classically trained vocalist who can take high register, is a must. For death metal, the one who can growl is a must. For blues music, low-key gritty voice is desirable .
These genres are vocal-centered, so they can hire a dedicated vocalist.

Professionally trained vocalists usually came from musical college. They probably want to get some paid job after this. Who wants to get a job in not-very-popular music genre ? ;-)

So, quite often, prog rock band couldn't afford to hire professionally trained vocalist.
That's why in prog it's quite common to have dual roles: some musicians play some instrument, and also handle vocals

Interesting. So, if i trai my voice and start a prog band my chance of highlight in the prog scene is very high, hum? And i could make some money too, selling albuns for PA´s fans...

desistindo View Drop Down

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Posted: September 29 2011 at 12:19

thehallway wrote:

Am I the only one thinking this thread is really racist?????

No, its not racist because im not meant to be racist. I was refering to a cultural/music orientantion in singing very typical of american prog.

ignatiusrielly View Drop Down

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Posted: September 29 2011 at 19:31

Horizons wrote:

The Mars Volta.

But i'm the only one who thinks this so...........

No, you are not!!!!!

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Henry Plainview View Drop Down

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Posted: September 29 2011 at 19:38

desistindo wrote:

thehallway wrote:

Am I the only one thinking this thread is really racist?????

No, its not racist because im not meant to be racist.

I'm not saying I agree, but that's not really how it works...

Logan wrote:

Racist means something different to you than it does to me. The US has citizens of many different races.

Prejudiced? Bigoted? I don't know, that may be harsh but I don't understand this thread at all.

Edited by Henry Plainview - September 29 2011 at 19:40

if you own a sodastream i hate you

Slaughternalia View Drop Down

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Posted: September 29 2011 at 20:19

thehallway wrote:

Disregarding somebody's music (or an element of it) just because of nationality..... is racist.

I'm pretty sure it's not. I mean if the thread was about how black people are bad vocalists that would be a different story

I'm so mad that you enjoy a certain combination of noises that I don't

Big Ears

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Posted: September 30 2011 at 02:51

Logan wrote:

Whether or nor not he's a good singer depends on one's perspective.

What I mean is that LaBrie can sing in tune and has a melodic voice with reasonable power. Contrary to a number of critics on the forums, he does vary his delivery. One of the recurring problems with 'modern' progresive rock is the weak vocals, but LaBrie has a robust voice (although DT's work was often marred by Portnoy's vocal contributions). Whether or not someone is a 'good' singer will always be subjective.

rogerthat

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Posted: September 30 2011 at 03:33

Big Ears wrote:

Contrary to a number of critics on the forums, he does vary his delivery.

Variation by itself is not enough, how effective it is also has to be considered. And I wonder why prog fans frequently diss pop vocals (this thread being another example, in a way) if merely being in tune and having reasonable power is sufficient reason to call someone a good singer. Sure, it is always a matter of opinion (and I don't think anybody who says they don't like LaBrie is claiming it to be a fact that he is not) but consideration of some technical parameters alone would hardly do justice to this discussion. Furthermore, LaBrie's voice might be hefty next to a Hogarth but he is really a prog metal singer and his voice is decidedly 'thinner' than Allen's or Gildenlow's, who eclipse him on several other considerations too. Lastly, you have also not considered all the significant technical considerations either. LaBrie sounds way too breathy to be acceptable. If people like that, fine, taste is nobody's monopoly but I'd find it surprising if people with more than a passing interest in the ways and means of singing can happily endure that. I know that I can't.

KirksNoseHair View Drop Down

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Posted: September 30 2011 at 06:44

Yeah, so anyway, I didn't read the entire thread and don't want to weigh in on the drama, but I think there are some American prog bands with great vocals.

Some might be a stretch to call "Prog" but:

Styx
Kansas
Spock's Beard
Neal Morse
Dream Theater

All bands that are either progressive or have prog elements to their music and great vocals

Stool Man

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Posted: September 30 2011 at 07:36

I object to the word "even" in the topic title

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infandous

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Posted: September 30 2011 at 09:47

KirksNoseHair wrote:

Yeah, so anyway, I didn't read the entire thread and don't want to weigh in on the drama, but I think there are some American prog bands with great vocals.

Some might be a stretch to call "Prog" but:

Styx
Kansas
Spock's Beard
Neal Morse
Dream Theater

All bands that are either progressive or have prog elements to their music and great vocals

Heh, you probably should have looked over the thread, because you are basically listing all the bands that people object to the vocals of. Personally, I agree that all these bands have excellent vocals, even if in some cases they wear on me a bit because of the "over the top" delivery. I think that is really what people have a problem with here, the loud, powerful, top of their range type of vocals that are so often found in American pop music. There is no question that the people in the bands you list CAN sing (proper intonation, not missing notes, not straining too much, etc.). It's their DELIVERY that I think is being objected to.

Frankly, a lot of the "theatrical" approach taken by British and European bands can get on my nerves (while other times, like with Hammill and Gabriel, I love it).

As to the "racist" comment, that would not apply. Regionalism, maybe.

Someone mentioned Captain Beefheart, and that made me think of Zappa. His bands over the years has some truly excellent vocalists...........and some I can't stand (Flo and Eddie, I'm talking about you........which is interesting since they were famous for their cheesy pop style vocals).

Anyway, I finally understand the actual thing that the OP is objecting to, and it is like most things musical, completely a matter of taste but also probably of culture. I have a high tolerance for the "shouty", high pitched, loud, and dramatic vocals that people seem to be objecting to, because I grew up with American radio in the 70's and 80's.

Catcher10

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Posted: September 30 2011 at 10:36

Big Ears wrote:

I think James LaBrie is American, he's a good progressive rock singer and he's made a worthwhile career for himself.

He is Canadian......does not apply to this thread.

With the use of autotunes and harmonizers........anyone can sound good, even in prog.

The T

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Posted: September 30 2011 at 11:09

Slaughternalia wrote:

thehallway wrote:

Disregarding somebody's music (or an element of it) just because of nationality..... is racist.

I'm pretty sure it's not. I mean if the thread was about how black people are bad vocalists that would be a different story

This is ridiculous. First, "American" is not a race. Second, if he's basing his opinion on singers based on how they sing English-language lyrics, it's not so incredibly bigoted to think that Americans would pronounce better than non-Americans. Having said that, the thread still makes little sense. But it's not racist. It;s just incoherent.