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octopus-4
Special Collaborator
RIO/Avant/Zeuhl,Neo & Post/Math Teams
Joined: October 31 2006
Location: Italy
Status: Offline
Points: 14823
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Posted: April 15 2012 at 02:36 |
A good analisys.  There's only one error: PFM didn't stop but released its own "Love Beach"es during the 80s but if you don't know those albums I'm happy for you.
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I stand with Roger Waters, I stand with Joan Baez, I stand with Victor Jara, I stand with Woody Guthrie. Music is revolution
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richardh
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 18 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 30093
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Posted: April 15 2012 at 09:45 |
octopus-4 wrote:
A good analisys. There's only one error: PFM didn't stop but released its own "Love Beach"es during the 80s but if you don't know those albums I'm happy for you. |
Should have checked  . I assume they stopped sometime around 1978 , its seems unthinkable they could do Love Beach style music (in ELP's case at least it made some twisted sense  )
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clarke2001
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: June 14 2006
Location: Croatia
Status: Offline
Points: 4160
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Posted: April 17 2012 at 19:13 |
Punk rock and prog rock - and any subgenre for that matter - are essentially the same.
Both early ELP and Pistols on Never Mind The Bollocks were young, furious, biting and clutching, wanted to change something and move forward.
I don't care if music is simple or complex - I appreciate honesty.
I don't care for "prog for the sake of being prog" and modern, diluted pop-punk.
There was a time when jazz was excellent, furious and daring. These days, God save me from the another boring combo of Berklee Scholars.
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Atavachron
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: September 30 2006
Location: Pearland
Status: Offline
Points: 65779
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Posted: April 17 2012 at 19:54 |
clarke2001 wrote:
Punk rock and prog rock - and any subgenre for that matter - are essentially the same.
Both early ELP and Pistols on Never Mind The Bollocks were young, furious, biting and clutching, wanted to change something and move forward. |
Excellent point
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TODDLER
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: August 28 2009
Location: Vineland, N.J.
Status: Offline
Points: 3126
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Posted: April 17 2012 at 21:46 |
Most working original/cover prog or rock bands touring small theatres in the 70's were pressured by managers, agents, and corporate staff to mend their ways,,,,(so to speak), at least that was the experience I had being part of that scene. That was in the United States and closer to the end of 79' when this all came about. Great musicians that had been playing the music scenes since the 60's....the ones I knew who had worked in higher corporate circles were angered, depressed, and took their own lives over this crap. It seems farce and too extreme for a majority of people in society to comprehend....so you had to be there like I was to understand exactly how and why on earth this could have happened in high numbers. I survived because I settled for playing good rock music and good prog in my chambers and remaining in the fast pace music business towing the line and selling out to what was relevant then. That was in the 80's when progressive rock bands were still performing in small theatres as I toured, but it sizzled out by the late 80's and sunk further to the underground when punk changed into "New Wave".
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OT Räihälä
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 09 2005
Location: Finland
Status: Offline
Points: 514
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Posted: April 18 2012 at 01:50 |
clarke2001 wrote:
There was a time when jazz was excellent, furious and daring. These days, God save me from the another boring combo of Berklee Scholars.
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Forget about the Berklee, have you checked out the contemporary Nordic jazz scene? That's where it happens ATM.
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Dayvenkirq
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 25 2011
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Status: Offline
Points: 10970
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Posted: April 18 2012 at 10:29 |
TODDLER wrote:
the ones I knew who had worked in higher corporate circles were angered, depressed, and took their own lives over this crap. |
Depressed? Took their own what?
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Icarium
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: March 21 2008
Location: Tigerstaden
Status: Offline
Points: 34090
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Posted: April 18 2012 at 10:47 |
OT Räihälä wrote:
clarke2001 wrote:
There was a time when jazz was excellent, furious and daring. These days, God save me from the another boring combo of Berklee Scholars.
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Forget about the Berklee, have you checked out the contemporary Nordic jazz scene? That's where it happens ATM. |
Nu jazz man, Nu jazz,  arctic jazz, and pinguine jazz
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bucka001
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 16 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 864
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Posted: April 22 2012 at 01:58 |
clarke2001 wrote:
Punk rock and prog rock - and any subgenre for that matter - are essentially the same.
Both early ELP and Pistols on Never Mind The Bollocks were young, furious, biting and clutching, wanted to change something and move forward.
I don't care if music is simple or complex - I appreciate honesty.
I don't care for "prog for the sake of being prog" and modern, diluted pop-punk.
There was a time when jazz was excellent, furious and daring. These days, God save me from the another boring combo of Berklee Scholars.
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Great post, you've pretty much nailed it. So many books on the subject rely on a Marxist analysis blah blah blah, etc, and really... that can all be tossed, it just comes down to honesty in the music and doing it for the right reasons.
timburlane wrote:
And many punk artists were secret prog fans; Rotten/Lydon was a fan of Can and Van Der Graaf and later Kate Bush but they didn't talk about it because of the year zero thing. |
I enjoyed your post as well and agree with just about everything you say. To be clear, though, Johnny Rotten did talk about his love of Can and VdGG as early as '77 on a legendary Capitol Radio broadcast interview. The fact that Rotten loved VdGG, Can, & Beefheart and played their music during the broadcast was as shocking as anything (and mortifying to Malcolm McClaren, who didn't want Rotten to 'expose' himself as a lover of this sort of music). Of all the classic-era major prog bands, VdGG is probably the one that has the most 'punk cred', with members of The Fall, The Dead Kennedys, The Germs, The Sex Pistols, and others, coming out of the closet as major PH/VdGG admirers (but, as you say, many didn't do so at the time, it was only years later that they acknowledged it).
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jc
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