Theism vs. Atheism ... will it ever be settled?

BaldJean wrote: last prayer of an agnostic: "oh God, if there is a God, have mercy upon my eternal soul, if I have an eternal soul"

I'm fairly firmly agnostic, I don't pray. but there is the distinct possibility I will say oh God when I'm dying, particularly if I am in bed because that would thrill me.

Mr ProgFreak wrote: Equality 7-2521 wrote: Mr ProgFreak wrote:    And at the same time, I can tell you from first hand experience that most Catholics that I've met have never heard of these ideas.  I've never met a Catholic who hasn't heard these ideas  That Atheists may get into heaven? I truly don't know any Catholic who would agree on that one. Except for those "Catholics on paper" who never go to church anyway, except for weddings and funerals. Obviously we're talking about people who have thought about the matter and call themselves (devout) Catholics.

Mike, even the bible has examples for that. ever read the parable of the two sons who are supposed to work in the vineyard?

JJLehto wrote: NecronCommander wrote: Well, if I end up in hell, he'll be playing country. That would be hell! I like to believe that, if there is a heaven an hell, they are not anything, per se. Heaven would be whatever heaven would be to you, and same with hell. Maybe this is not so far out, but I'm claiming the idea as my own! Country music 24/7 would be a major part of my personal hell

Actually I've believed in that idea for years. Heaven for me is a huge snowy mountain that I can snowboard on as fast as I want without getting injured, and when I'm done, I'll hang out by the local water park the size of Europe. Hell on the other hand, is, yeah, a country music concert. Toby Keith to be exact. Toby Keith....for eternity.

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote: CinemaZebra wrote: Actually I've believed in that idea for years. Heaven for me is a huge snowy mountain that I can snowboard on as fast as I want without getting injured,   That would be hell, if you can't get injured, then there's no emotion, without emotion there's no adrenaline and without adrenaline, why in hell would you want to snowboard?   Iván

Even if the danger were there it would become hell after some time. I'd like to quote Peter Hammill on that: "I'm ultimately bored by endless ecstasy".

Mr ProgFreak wrote: BaldJean wrote: Mr ProgFreak wrote: Equality 7-2521 wrote: Mr ProgFreak wrote:    And at the same time, I can tell you from first hand experience that most Catholics that I've met have never heard of these ideas.  I've never met a Catholic who hasn't heard these ideas  That Atheists may get into heaven? I truly don't know any Catholic who would agree on that one. Except for those "Catholics on paper" who never go to church anyway, except for weddings and funerals. Obviously we're talking about people who have thought about the matter and call themselves (devout) Catholics. Mike, even the bible has examples for that. ever read the parable of the two sons who are supposed to work in the vineyard? No. But then again the Bible can be used to support almost any point of view. Pick and choose ...

An interesting remark, Mike. May I deduce from it that your other comments spring from similar ignorance? How do you know the bible can be used for everything if you have not even read it?

Mr ProgFreak wrote: You may deduce anything you want. But I'd appreciate that either you or BaldJean would contribute something meaningful to the discussion. For example, elaborating on that parable. How can I know whether you have read every single word of the bible? You seem to be saying that unless one has read the whole thing, they're not qualified to talk about it. I can also reject homeopathy without having read a 1000+ page book on how it works.

Mike, this really is a letdown for someone who claims he has a scientific approach. Dismissing things offhand? And no, you can not reject homeopathy before you know how it is supposed to work, because you rely on second hand information only then. I thought you had a scientific mind - I am really disappointed to find that so much of what you are saying is a bunch of prejudices only.

Mr ProgFreak wrote: ^ I'm disappointed that you're so intent on making me appear to look that way. I didn't say that I knew nothing about homeopathy. I said that I don't need to read a 1000+ page book about it. Just like I don't need to read a 1000+ book on astrology or alchemy in order to reject those theories. By the same reasoning, I know enough about the bible to say that you can use it to justify just about any claim you want to make - I don't have to read it from beginning to end in order to be qualified to make such a statement. I wish you were less intent on trying to make me look bad, than on posting some meaningful argument for a change.

I'll gladly hand that comment of yours back to you. Touch your own nose.

Mr ProgFreak wrote: ^ Are you *ever* going to contribute to the discussion? Are you seriously expecting me to bother to make a scientific case that homeopathy doesn't work? Sorry, but I'm not going to jump through your hoop.

No, I did not. Are you ever reading what I am saying? All I am saying is that you can not dismiss anything offhand. You act like someone at the beginning of the twentieth century when being confronted with Einstein's theory of relativity. "Time and space are solid; everyone knows that". Yoiu claim to be a sceptic, but you are not in the least. A sceptic examines the subject he is going to make a statement about before making a comment about it.
We are all full of prejudices, me and you included. The difference is: I am aware of it, while you go around boasting that you are a rational person, which no human being even comes close to, claiming that all people who believe in God are irrational, turning your nose down at those poor fools . Get off of your high horse!

BaldFriede wrote: Mr ProgFreak wrote: ^ Are you *ever* going to contribute to the discussion? Are you seriously expecting me to bother to make a scientific case that homeopathy doesn't work? Sorry, but I'm not going to jump through your hoop. No, I did not. Are you ever reading what I am saying? All I am saying is that you can not dismiss anything offhand. You act like someone at the beginning of the twentieth century when being confronted with Einstein's theory of relativity. "Time and space are solid; everyone knows that". Yoiu claim to be a sceptic, but you are not in the least. A sceptic examines the subject he is going to make a statement about before making a comment about it. We are all full of prejudices, me and you included. The difference is: I am aware of it, while you go around boasting that you are a rational person, which no human being even comes close to, claiming that all people who believe in God are irrational, turning your nose down at those poor fools . Get off of your high horse!

I highly doubt that....
That last part is 100% right on, sadly don't even bother. I've said that so many times and it's not even worth it. People that act that way are blind to it.

And you know, I will say it. I dont even care anymore:
Atheists are more prone to douchebaggery!
I bet no one will read this part...
But we are of course all individuals, and can't be classified. That being said, in general my experiences with religious people have been MORE tolerant than atheists. Are their intolerant/dumb/frankly....insane religious folk? Of course.

But as an overall group, atheism seems to lend itself to it. Either:
A) for some reason just prone to trolling type behavior and attitude
B) I do think a lot of atheists really dont care, and go with it to be "alternative/edgy/whatever"
C) Maybe they feel they must go out and fight the power
D) Since, IMH OPINION atheism is a belief, and one that can not be proved and ultimately ends up being based on that persons faith in it....they are just as closed minded as people they often attack.

OK, that's what I got. Have at it. I just do not even care anymore. Respond if you like, I'll read it, probably chuckle but I doubt I'll bother to respond. How many f*cking times can I say it? Keep it to yourself! Regardless. No one cares you're atheist, or catholic, or worship satan. We debate/joke/argue but in reality no one cares. OK?
Jesus Christ....


Edited by JJLehto - July 18 2010 at 03:20

^ Oh, I've "read a word" of the bible. The question is: Do I have to read *all* the words.