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AFlowerKingCrimson View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 08 2020 at 12:30
A guy who I was following who is part of the so called men's movement and a former downstairs neighbor of mine was claiming on twitter that Donald Trump will be re-elected on Janurary 20th. I guess we will see about that won't we? Weird, how a guy who I once considered a friendly neighbor and decent person could turn into one of the biggest asshats online. Needless to say I unfollowed him on twitter. I have no time for nonsense. 

Edited by AFlowerKingCrimson - November 08 2020 at 15:33
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 08 2020 at 12:32
Originally posted by Easy Money Easy Money wrote:

Re trump's alleged comeback in 2024. He may try this, but his prospects don't look good. Trump lost the popular vote twice in a row to two very beatable candidates, the very unpopular Hillary and the way past his prime Biden.
He has a strong base, but its not enough people to win elections.


The popular vote doesn't seem to be the key factor in presidential elections, due to your strange electoral college system. What's more important is, can he win in the key swing states?

He got the second highest popular vote in US history (beaten only by Biden), so I struggle to see that he couldn't muster enough popular support, given a fair wind (the economic situation and other factors in his favour)

He came damn close this time. A small percentage shift in a couple of swing states (Pennsylvania, Nevada, Georgia) would have delivered him a second term

I think Democrats write Trump off at their peril.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 08 2020 at 12:37
Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

Where's micky?  I want him to gloat for weeks.  Biden will end up having huge popular vote numbers once west coast turnout comes in.





no gloating I'm afraid my friend..

that election.. was a disaster...  sure Trump lost and it never was in doubt, with huge blue shifts in vote counted being well advertised in advance, nor will end up particularly close and yeah that was important.. getting him out of office... but as i've long said.. winning the White House wasn't enough.

everything else..  anything that was a rated a toss up prior to the election but Georgia.. the Democrats lost including a few races they were favored to win.

74.000,000 votes...  225,000 dead..

America really is broken David.. what this all means going forward.. I give up trying to figure it out LOL

but then again.. in less than two months we will get a good look at where we are poltically in this country. Without Trump at the top of the ticket do Republicans turn out.. without Trump at the top of the ticket do Democrats turn out.  Comparing the soon to come vote totals out of Georgia to what we will see in January might tell us a bit about what is to come. 

The state appaers to be a good mirocosm of America. The country is bitterly and tightly divided..breaking down urban/suburb affluent/educated v. rural and f**king stupid.... and even hundreds of thousands of dead Americans couldn't shake partisanship..  this was a loss by Trump. .but not a repudation of HIS party..  I'll be really curious to see who tries to pick up his torch in 2024.




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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 08 2020 at 12:41
Originally posted by lazland lazland wrote:

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Originally posted by lazland lazland wrote:

Originally posted by Nogbad_The_Bad Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:

Would love to see the south secede, the take huge funding from the north then f**k up everything


I seem to recall that not ending particularly happily last time........
And the last I looked, states like Montana, Wyoming and the Dakatas we're bordering Canada. Not very South.


Yes, and your comments here lead to a very important point. All of the predictions of the death of Conservative America were, and are, baseless. Put aside Trumpalot himself, I am talking about the attitudes of those, in their millions, who voted him in and for him last week who loathe pretty much everything the “progressives” stand for, and felt they had no choice but to put their cross against his name.

Not merely the old Jim Crow states, but vast swathes of Mid-Western states and the old Rust Belt.

It would be a shocking mistake to lump all of the areas and people together with stereotypes of misogynistic racists looking to blow up all and sundry. That is the mistake a lot of so-called progressives made here in the UK over Brexit. It came back to bite them very hard on the backside.

I sincerely hope that Biden and Harris can bring USA together, and heal the open sores and wounds that pervade your national politics and society. I won’t put any money on it, but I hope for it.

One thing is for sure. That will not happen unless the Democrats learn from the clear mistakes of the past, in hock to globalism for a start, and learn the basic lesson that many people who voted Trump did so not because they were intrinsically racist, or fascistic. They did so because they have a worldview which, though one might disagree with it, holds with it a basic love of country and a way of life which you ignore at your peril.

Micky has often spoken about the inevitability of GOP tearing itself apart and heading for a split within a couple of electoral cycles. Sheer bollocks. This election, although the Republicans lost (albeit by a damned sight less than predicted by almost every commentator -not me, btw) shows me a basic truism. For societal divisions to be healed, there has to be a basic respect for others opinions, to work together for a common good, and accept that the state does not automatically have the monopoly on answers to the human condition.

The US used to be very good at this. I hope very much that it reasserts itself in this regard.
Yes, and this dose of reality was needed. Record numbers of voters came out for both sides. Seventy four million for the Dems and seventy one million for the Republicans. Anyone who tries to claim a victory with a resounding message of change is foolish. This country will remain starkly and evenly divided for decades to come. At least we got a wacko out of the office, but that family tree will produce more wackos for the office in future, because that's what half of this country will want. Not because they love wackos but because these candidates will suit their needs and agendas.

Edited by SteveG - November 08 2020 at 13:14
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 08 2020 at 14:23
Originally posted by micky micky wrote:

Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

Where's micky?  I want him to gloat for weeks.  Biden will end up having huge popular vote numbers once west coast turnout comes in.





no gloating I'm afraid my friend..

that election.. was a disaster...

74.000,000 votes...  225,000 dead..

America really is broken David.. what this all means going forward.. I give up trying to figure it out LOL

The state appaers to be a good mirocosm of America. The country is bitterly and tightly divided..breaking down urban/suburb affluent/educated v. rural and f**king stupid.... and even hundreds of thousands of dead Americans couldn't shake partisanship..  this was a loss by Trump. .but not a repudation of HIS party..  I'll be really curious to see who tries to pick up his torch in 2024.


And therein lies the problem, in this one (edited by me) post.

“Country bitterly and tightly divided. Breaking down urban/suburb affluent v rural and f**king stupid.”

I live in a very rural area. Like many of your fellow citizens. I like to think of myself as a fairly decent human being. I am not in any way shape or form racist. I do not believe that I am f**king stupid.

I am, basically, a fairly run of the mill chap, who is pretty committed to my worldview, but not so much that I am blind to its and my faults. Not so much that I am deeply sceptical about many of the people who run for office and their motives, but I take part because the alternative of a one-party totalitarian state is too awful to contemplate.

In other words, a typical voter.

Very much like many of the decent, law-abiding, patriotic, taxpaying, hard-working folk who just happen to vote Republican, and, in my country, Conservative (I am not, by the way, a Conservative voter, as those who have read my many political posts here will know. I would not be a Republican voter in America, or Democrat. I would look for a decent independent).

I have said it before, and I say it again now. I find many so-called liberals to be the worst kind of illiberal people that I know.

The vast majority of the 41 million Republican voters last week were not f**king stupid, and to paint them in this light is, in fact, the most awful picture of partisanship.

Respect. A little bit more of it, plus a wee bit of humility, might just make things a little better.....
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 08 2020 at 14:50
Steve, with all due respect, you don't live in the US - I do. Believe me, there is absolutely NO comparison between the rural areas of the US and those in any part of Europe (meant geographically, not politically, of course). Respect is a two-way street. I am not going to waste my time respecting anyone who thinks I'm the devil because I believe in universal healthcare, freedom of choice for women, or racial equality - to name but a few. Not that I'm going to go out of my way to hate or ridicule them - that's just not me - but I'm not going to feel guilty for not having a great opinion of them. Liberals may be illiberal in speech, but they're not the ones stockpiling all kinds of weapons and ammo to wage war against heaven knows what.

In addition, I set a great store by consistency, and people who vote for a narcissistic sociopath because they are afraid of socialism, but did not even think of returning the stimulus money (as a true anti-socialist would have done) do not get a whole lot of points in my book.


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 08 2020 at 14:57
Sorry to witter on, but the wife is watching stuff on the tv I have very little interest inLOL

I might add here that the election result, should the Georgia Senate runoff go GOP as most expect, is a strong vindication of America’s electoral system.

Over here in Blighty, when we have a general election, the party who get the most seats are invited by HM Brenda to form a government. Usually, they will be able to form a majority in the House of Commons (Theresa May didn’t, and relied on the barking brigade DUP to “govern”, and Cameron had to form a coalition in 2010 with the Liberal Democrat’s, but usually the governing party has an overall majority. These were aberrations).

We also have The House of Lords. This is our second chamber. Until very recently in historical terms, this was populated by hereditary Peers of the Realm, i.e. to qualify, you were born into the role, and took your seat when Pater joined his maker, or by the Lords Spiritual, in other words the Church of England hierarchy. 

The latter are still there in a somewhat quaint nod to medieval governance (since Magna Carta in fact). There are still 90 of the hereditary old duffers there as well, because they couldn’t get rid of them all. The remainder of the 800 or so Peers are appointed by the government of the day via a patronage system, in consultation with opposition parties who get to nominate their own lot as well.

Our second chamber, our legislative revising chamber, is wholly unelected, and is stuffed full of failed politicians, party donors, celebs, and others wholly unsuited to the rather important task of ensuring that our legislation passed by The Commons is fit for purpose.

America’s Founding Fathers, in their wisdom, initiated a system of checks and balances. Both of your chambers are fully elected by the people, and it is extremely difficult, rightly IMO, for one person, or one party/group of people, to hold untrammelled and unchecked power. The system was designed to do this, and in spite of the requirement for reform (especially for, but not limited to, the Electoral College and some shocking acts of vast power being brought by corporate interests, something Clinton, in particular, was very good at), it is a system which works rather well.

If I were a US citizen tonight, I would be proud of the fact that the electorate voted for a Senate which would hold a rival party President to account. It forces the best leaders to compromise, as the best leaders in your country’s history have done. All I have read states that Biden wants to do this, and I hope this is how it turns out.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 08 2020 at 15:08
Originally posted by Raff Raff wrote:

Steve, with all due respect, you don't live in the US - I do. Believe me, there is absolutely NO comparison between the rural areas of the US and those in any part of Europe (meant geographically, not politically, of course). Respect is a two-way street. I am not going to waste my time respecting anyone who thinks I'm the devil because I believe in universal healthcare, freedom of choice for women, or racial equality - to name but a few. Not that I'm going to go out of my way to hate or ridicule them - that's just not me - but I'm not going to feel guilty for not having a great opinion of them. Liberals may be illiberal in speech, but they're not the ones stockpiling all kinds of weapons and ammo to wage war against heaven knows what.

In addition, I set a great store by consistency, and people who vote for a narcissistic sociopath because they are afraid of socialism, but did not even think of returning the stimulus money (as a true anti-socialist would have done) do not get a whole lot of points in my book.



No, I don’t live over the pond. Both of us are, though, extremely familiar with the rampant corruption one finds in both Italian and Maltese politics, are we not?

In fact, though, Raff, I think there are similarities between rural America and rural Britain. Rural folk in Britain tend to be far more conservative (note the small c) than their urban compatriots. The Labour Party in England garners most of its votes from urban conurbations, and, believe me, many of the debates you lot have over there about progressive politics v conservative politics are sharply mirrored here. We are a wee bit more alike than many people might care to admit.

Why should you feel guilty about your views? You shouldn’t. I did not suggest this. I merely tried to make the point that well-meaning people can have differing points of view. Or to put it another way, very few Republican or Conservative voters would think you are the devil. Some might, to be sure. But I don’t think the majority do. They merely hold differing views.

Of course, one of the many depressing aspects of modern democratic politics is the modern media’s awful fixation with amplifying said differences to a warlike situation. It does us no good. Just because someone doesn’t believe in a universal healthcare system doesn’t make them evil. It just makes them wrong (in our opinion, of course).

As to the stockpiling of weapons, you know full well that they are a minority of nutcases. I am comfortable in the knowledge that the majority of Republican voters find them as distasteful as you.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 08 2020 at 15:18
Being that the right has highjacked democracy and broken rules and conventions to fix their stamp on the government for the next 50 years or so, it seems to me that a majority Senate of Dems is needed to reverse these breaches of decency. Speaking of Raff's post, I would go far enough to say that the northern rural states, while not southern, certainly are red neck in their world views, if not in actual practice. They don't despise globalism as a world evil but center their distaste on illegal immigration and hold true to old school dictates like sexism or social and racial class distinctions. They don't have first hand experience with the many people that they are leary of and ignorance of them is the problem.

Edited by SteveG - November 08 2020 at 15:27
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 08 2020 at 15:44
Originally posted by lazland lazland wrote:

Sorry to witter on, but the wife is watching stuff on the tv I have very little interest inLOL

I might add here that the election result, should the Georgia Senate runoff go GOP as most expect, is a strong vindication of America’s electoral system.

Over here in Blighty, when we have a general election, the party who get the most seats are invited by HM Brenda to form a government. Usually, they will be able to form a majority in the House of Commons (Theresa May didn’t, and relied on the barking brigade DUP to “govern”, and Cameron had to form a coalition in 2010 with the Liberal Democrat’s, but usually the governing party has an overall majority. These were aberrations).

We also have The House of Lords. This is our second chamber. Until very recently in historical terms, this was populated by hereditary Peers of the Realm, i.e. to qualify, you were born into the role, and took your seat when Pater joined his maker, or by the Lords Spiritual, in other words the Church of England hierarchy. 

The latter are still there in a somewhat quaint nod to medieval governance (since Magna Carta in fact). There are still 90 of the hereditary old duffers there as well, because they couldn’t get rid of them all. The remainder of the 800 or so Peers are appointed by the government of the day via a patronage system, in consultation with opposition parties who get to nominate their own lot as well.

Our second chamber, our legislative revising chamber, is wholly unelected, and is stuffed full of failed politicians, party donors, celebs, and others wholly unsuited to the rather important task of ensuring that our legislation passed by The Commons is fit for purpose.

America’s Founding Fathers, in their wisdom, initiated a system of checks and balances. Both of your chambers are fully elected by the people, and it is extremely difficult, rightly IMO, for one person, or one party/group of people, to hold untrammelled and unchecked power. The system was designed to do this, and in spite of the requirement for reform (especially for, but not limited to, the Electoral College and some shocking acts of vast power being brought by corporate interests, something Clinton, in particular, was very good at), it is a system which works rather well.

If I were a US citizen tonight, I would be proud of the fact that the electorate voted for a Senate which would hold a rival party President to account. It forces the best leaders to compromise, as the best leaders in your country’s history have done. All I have read states that Biden wants to do this, and I hope this is how it turns out.
"Sorry to witter on, but the wife is watching stuff on the tv I have very little interest inLOL"

 I take it Strictly Come F*****g Dancing is on, then!

"Our second chamber, our legislative revising chamber, is wholly unelected, and is stuffed full of failed politicians, party donors, celebs, and others wholly unsuited to the rather important task of ensuring that our legislation passed by The Commons is fit for purpose".

That is true, and I support it being replaced by a fully elected chamber using PR.

But the Lords has done a far better job of scrutinising recent legislation than the Commons has.

On a different tack, I am delighted to see that Johnson has done a U turn over free school meals in the Christmas holidays: I wrote to him expressing my considerable anger that he was taking no action, as did many other elected politicians. It seems that our collective pressure shamed him into action.

In the US, I would probably vote Democrat, though I'd prefer a party with a more focussed environmental agenda if there was one with a realistic chance.


Edited by Hercules - November 08 2020 at 15:49
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 08 2020 at 15:49
Right now, I'm happy with a party that just recognizes that there actually is an environment. Lol
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 08 2020 at 16:11
Here are some interesting twitter posts by the guy I mentioned earlier(my former neighbor):


"Donald Trump is president and will be inaugurated in January. Sodomites don't want to hear that. They'll be screaming at the sky again."


"Biden won and 2+2=5 They think if you keep hearing it over and over, that it will be true. It'll get to the point where only liberal sheep will be the media audience and conservatives will stop being scare-dy cats and thrive on their own platforms."

 

"EU leaders, all sheep, "congratulate" Biden. Poland's president Duda congratulated him on his "campaign", NOT his "win" or even as president-elect."

 

"Al Gore thought he was president for 37 days."




Edited by AFlowerKingCrimson - November 08 2020 at 16:12
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 08 2020 at 16:23
Don't worry. One day he's going to trip and fall off his flat Earth. I have a loony friend who emailed me with much the same. I just told him that yes he's right and I couldn't be happier about it. Lol
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 08 2020 at 16:36
^ Stuff like that is why I don't touch any of those men's groups with a 10 foot pole, I find a lot of it is really just hateful and spiteful ideologies buried underneath the label of something like "Men Going Their Own Way." I think the idea of that is totally fine, in fact I think it's a good thing if put into practice the way it's supposed to be, but unfortunately too many people in those groups are a bunch of neckbeards who just clearly hate women and blame them for their lack of success in that department. Lots of them are very sad people who have fallen down the alt-right rabbit hole. Just take a look at the r/MGTOW subreddit, they've garnered the nickname Men Getting Triggered Over Women LOL it's a shame though, because I believe it could really be a force of good but a handful of bad apples have to ruin it for everyone.

These people just live in their own world with little to no grasp on reality. I hate how politics are so black and white and one size fits all based on what party you're in. It's like sports teams and it's incredibly frustrating. Both parties do essentially the same sh*t, we just need to come together and work on improving the lives of the average American. Cut the military budget and put it in in education, healthcare, the environment, getting people off the streets and making sure everyone pays an equal share in the tax department. Is any rational person against that stuff?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 08 2020 at 16:41
What's a men's group? The YMCA?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 08 2020 at 16:49
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

What's a men's group? The YMCA?


Ha ha. No there's this whole thing called the manosphere. The MGTOW's(Men going there own way)is just one branch of that. I agree with some of what they say but they are basically a male version of extreme radical feminists. Many of them(if not most) are alt right and Trump supporters. 

Ok, I see Doug has pretty much said the same thing but went into more detail.


Edited by AFlowerKingCrimson - November 08 2020 at 16:53
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 08 2020 at 17:22
Sounds like those Incel loonies.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 08 2020 at 17:31
I wouldn't trust a men's group that would allow me as a member
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 08 2020 at 17:39
Ok Groucho. ;)
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 08 2020 at 17:41
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

What's a men's group? The YMCA?

LOL

The Village People was about the only band not to sue Trump over the use of songs at his pep rallies.

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