What constitutes a prog epic?

BrufordFreak wrote: Also, if instrumentals do not qualify, then all those concept albums with one or two side-long or album-long songs couldn't count--like pretty much all Tangerine Dream & Klaus Schulze albums, like Solaris' "Marsbeli krónikák", like Anthony Phillips' two long instrumentals on The Geese and the Ghost or his 1984 or Slow Dance. It also excludes pretty much anything long from Post Rock, Krautrock, Prog Electronica, and Jazz-Rock Fusion. What? No Miles, no Herbie, no RTF or Mahavishnu John McLaughlin? Limited Focus/Jan Akkerman? No Berlin School? No Godspeed You! Black Emperor! No Present, Art Zoyd, or Univers Zero? And what about all of the wordless Canterbury "epics"??? This is becoming untenable for me!

I cannot say for sure. What makes it an "epic" for you might not work for me. Certainly it sould be something significant and mind blowing.

In my humble opinion, you are correct. I know an epic when I hear it. Epics are not “30 minute noodlings” but have organization and an out-on-a-limb “Wow!” factor. 2112 is an epic. There are crescendos and culminations in carefully created parts. Barnabas’ 3-part piece “Prelude” “The Dream” “Breathless Wonderment” is likewise a true epic. Cygnus on Hemispheres deserves this title. Yes has a number of epics, as well as noodlings (no offense meant. I love Yes). Operation Mindcrime by Queensryche might be considered an epic, but there must also be a delineation between what constitutes an epic and what makes up a concept album. That is also an issue with Pink Floyd. In short, true epics go out-on-a-limb to create an organized musical story for a purpose, akin to opera. There should be other terms used to describe those other long works.

If it once had a “laser show” attached to it, it also constitutes an epic.   

I miss those psychedelic Pink Floyd laser shows.

The music sounds as it sounds, whether we call it an epic or not.

M27Barney wrote: SteveG wrote: Sean Trane wrote: SteveG wrote: I don't believe that there is a set formula for this, except that many feel that a long length is required. What say you? Epic implies a certain length, but it mostly means "heroic", no matter Barley Barney says Yeah, if we can just only keep barney on the M27! It's not a long motorway but it will do. For the record....and to prevent you all swimming around in the evil jam of ignorance...The M27 refers to the in-code of my postcode (zip for the septics).. I do live about 1600m from the M60...which is a motorway...

Very well then. Strike out M27 and insert M60.

M27Barney wrote: ^ The lyric rule is one for discusion. I reckon that long instrumentals Do qualify by an extension of the instrumental parts to the track length...

If it seems to the listener to be "grand in scale," then its a prog epic. At least that's how I've defined it. Placing a time limit seems rather arbitrary to me.

AFlowerKingCrimson wrote: An epic typically is any prog track over 15 minutes long with different themese and sections. A good example would be awaken or supper's ready. I think if someone has to ask on a site like this what an epic is maybe they are either brand new to prog or on the wrong website.

AFlowerKingCrimson wrote: progaardvark wrote: If it seems to the listener to be "grand in scale," then its a prog epic. At least that's how I've defined it. Placing a time limit seems rather arbitrary to me. The word "epic" often implies an element of heroism (like epic poetry) and so at times it seems like not the best word to use, but I'm at a loss for a better one. Grandiosity? Length has something to do with it although maybe it's not the entire picture. If you look at the Odyssey or the Illiad by Homer, Beowulf, the epic of Gilgamesh, Paradise lost or any number of those kind of poems they aren't short but are usually at least the length of a novel. As far as prog goes I think it's usually meant to mean any long song more than 10 minutes. I suppose it depends on how precise you want to be in your definition. I'm not an expert on this but I usually just hear it applied to long songs when in fact that could not be entirely accurate. Anyway, yes they are grandiose but I'm not sure that's a better term. Until we can find a better catch all term than epic which seems to be the one used by most prog fans that's what we will have to stick with. Of course if you are a critic of prog you might use the term "bloated" instead.