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Politically incorrect prog??

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Neu!mann View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Neu!mann Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 06 2023 at 07:26
I'm surprised no one has mentioned the King Crimson classic Ladies of the Road yet...a song about groupies and sex that was just good fun in the early 1970s, but might be considered offensive in the oversensitive, insecure 21st century.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Stressed Cheese Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 06 2023 at 08:38
Originally posted by Neu!mann Neu!mann wrote:

but might be considered offensive in the oversensitive, insecure 21st century.
I don't know why some people are so desperate to believe this. I know it might not be as apparent if you're over a certain age and primarily listen to (old) prog, but a lot of (mainstream) music (pop, rap, hip-hop, etc., but also rock) these days is much more daring and explicit than Ladies of the Road. Outside of the suggestive school-reporter mention, it probably doesn't even scratch the top of the most incorrect lyrics of its era, let alone outside of it. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AFlowerKingCrimson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 06 2023 at 09:00
Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:


You don't see how attributing one quality to a whole group of people based on race could be seen as racist? What if he said "sneaky black people?" Or "angry white people?" I don't think he meant in that way in the context of the song but I can see how it could be interpreted that way. Oh well, we all see things differently. That's what makes the world go around.

Yes, we all see things differently, but understanding context is the essential thing here, isn't it? 

Yes, context but not everyone gets that. If I called you a jerk without knowing you that would be different if I called you a jerk if I knew you for years and you knew my sense of humor. An outsider might not see that. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote AFlowerKingCrimson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 06 2023 at 09:02
Originally posted by Neu!mann Neu!mann wrote:

I'm surprised no one has mentioned the King Crimson classic Ladies of the Road yet...a song about groupies and sex that was just good fun in the early 1970s, but might be considered offensive in the oversensitive, insecure 21st century.

Maybe but you hear a lot worse in lyrics today but they have to have a parental advisory sticker on them. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote SteveG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 06 2023 at 09:30
Roy Harper - The Death Of God. 

The Black Cloud Of Islam. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cstack3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 06 2023 at 15:20
Originally posted by Stressed Cheese Stressed Cheese wrote:

Originally posted by Neu!mann Neu!mann wrote:

but might be considered offensive in the oversensitive, insecure 21st century.
I don't know why some people are so desperate to believe this. I know it might not be as apparent if you're over a certain age and primarily listen to (old) prog, but a lot of (mainstream) music (pop, rap, hip-hop, etc., but also rock) these days is much more daring and explicit than Ladies of the Road. Outside of the suggestive school-reporter mention, it probably doesn't even scratch the top of the most incorrect lyrics of its era, let alone outside of it. 

OP here....I appreciate any and all contributions!  Personally, I would not have considered Ladies of the Road, but am glad for the suggestion! 

Regarding rap/hip-hop, the violent messages conveyed (killing police, abuse of women etc.) makes that some of the most repellent music.  I dig the rhythms, but don't find much of value in it for listening.  

In retrospect, prog is probably the least offensive genre!  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MikeEnRegalia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 06 2023 at 16:21
Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

I also happen to think Henry Rollins would want to break the guys nose... or at least the young Rollins.   

Why? I fail to see why Rollins would want to do that to this guy specifically.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Atavachron Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 06 2023 at 18:01
^ What difference does it make--  freedom of expression includes many things, doesn't it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Saperlipopette! Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 06 2023 at 21:14
^ Well, it doesn't include breaking noses
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Atavachron Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 07 2023 at 00:45
^ No but it includes me thinking a young Henry Rollins might react that way, and saying such.  I'm sorry that bothers you.  

As for why I think it, I mentioned it's because of his political views... not to mention a crass version of his best known song.  Yeah, you could say Henry might be a little peeved.





Edited by Atavachron - September 07 2023 at 01:12
"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MikeEnRegalia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 07 2023 at 04:20
^ I don't know Henry Rollins personally, but I know descriptions of him having had anger issues in the past. But I'm not sure he's quite that petty. 

This does not "bother" me - I merely find it intriguing that you would be so sure about how he reacts to satire. That level of confidence would suggest to me that there's some interviews or statements to that effect.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Sean Trane Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 07 2023 at 07:02
Originally posted by Neu!mann Neu!mann wrote:

I'm surprised no one has mentioned the King Crimson classic Ladies of the Road yet...a song about groupies and sex that was just good fun in the early 1970s, but might be considered offensive in the oversensitive, insecure 21st century.

ELP's Brain Salad Surgery (the album title, but the song on Works as well) was about fellatio. 
let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter
keep our sand-castle virtues
content to be a doer
as well as a thinker,
prefer lifting our pen
rather than un-sheath our sword
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 07 2023 at 10:01
Originally posted by Sean Trane Sean Trane wrote:

ELP's Brain Salad Surgery (the album title, but the song on Works as well) was about fellatio. 

I can't say about that, but according to Edward Macan's Rocking the Classics (1997, p.74), BSS is a concept album about "the opposition between man and machine that dominates the entire album".

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Atavachron Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 07 2023 at 11:56
Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

^ I don't know Henry Rollins personally, but I know descriptions of him having had anger issues in the past. But I'm not sure he's quite that petty. 

This does not "bother" me - I merely find it intriguing that you would be so sure about how he reacts to satire. That level of confidence would suggest to me that there's some interviews or statements to that effect.
No, just an impression.   You don't mock someone's work and then expect the artist to not care, free speech or not---  in fact, if 'free speech' is one's excuse, they should expect to be confronted.   You can't just do whatever you want and then hide behind free speech and somehow hope someone doesn't want to break your nose.   It's irrational.



"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Cosmiclawnmower Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 07 2023 at 12:26
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Roy Harper - The Death Of God. 

The Black Cloud Of Islam. 

Not to mention 'Forbidden Fruit' off of Valentine..

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Stressed Cheese Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 07 2023 at 16:29
Originally posted by cstack3 cstack3 wrote:

OP here....I appreciate any and all contributions!  Personally, I would not have considered Ladies of the Road, but am glad for the suggestion! 

Regarding rap/hip-hop, the violent messages conveyed (killing police, abuse of women etc.) makes that some of the most repellent music.  I dig the rhythms, but don't find much of value in it for listening.  

In retrospect, prog is probably the least offensive genre!  

Prog is really not that provocative or daring most of the time. Most of the more talked about prog albums are from the 70's anyway.

I'm sure there's a lot of more positive rap, or rap that uses provocative imagery to talk about something important. But the stereotype of the genre isn't always that "nice" I guess. But it's not my genre.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cstack3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 07 2023 at 22:40
Originally posted by Sean Trane Sean Trane wrote:

Originally posted by Neu!mann Neu!mann wrote:

I'm surprised no one has mentioned the King Crimson classic Ladies of the Road yet...a song about groupies and sex that was just good fun in the early 1970s, but might be considered offensive in the oversensitive, insecure 21st century.

ELP's Brain Salad Surgery (the album title, but the song on Works as well) was about fellatio. 

Good catch, thanks!  I remember that from years ago!  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Saperlipopette! Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 08 2023 at 00:16
Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:


^ No but it includes me thinking a young Henry Rollins might react that way, and saying such.  I'm sorry that bothers you. 
I just thought I'd let you know that freedom of expression does not include breaking noses, that's all. It wasn't clear to me whether you were aware of that or not. To me Henry Rollins machoism has always been off-putting. I stay clear of his music, his spoken word-stuff and any male (or female I suppose) that violently radiate anger and aggression in general.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Atavachron Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 08 2023 at 01:05
^ Then stay clear of it.   But this attitude of "You should be able to do what you want and if the artist or subject objects they're being anti-freedom!"  is childish, unrealistic and frankly retarded.   


"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MikeEnRegalia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 08 2023 at 01:16
Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

^ I don't know Henry Rollins personally, but I know descriptions of him having had anger issues in the past. But I'm not sure he's quite that petty. 

This does not "bother" me - I merely find it intriguing that you would be so sure about how he reacts to satire. That level of confidence would suggest to me that there's some interviews or statements to that effect.
No, just an impression.   You don't mock someone's work and then expect the artist to not care, free speech or not---  in fact, if 'free speech' is one's excuse, they should expect to be confronted.   You can't just do whatever you want and then hide behind free speech and somehow hope someone doesn't want to break your nose.   It's irrational.

I don't think Lars mocked Henry Rollins - he mocked Joe Biden, who is a pathological liar, which makes the sarcastic video perfectly reasonable.

Of course Rollins might object to the video for various reasons. But in a free society people have to be able to express their opinion without fear of violence. If you disagree with that - fine, but then you have to accept the fact that you are against a free society. You didn't say one way or the other - so suppose Henry Rollins today sees this video, gets angry, goes to "Lars"'s house, rings, and when he opens, Rollins punches him in the nose. Ok or not?


Edited by MikeEnRegalia - September 08 2023 at 01:20
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