More significant to Prog, Magma or Kansas?

^ Yes, it's an interesting pairing. Magma had more impact in terms of progressing music as a form of art, surely they were hugely influential on many prog artists even if they would not name Magma as an influence. On the other hand Kansas were massively influential on a number of high-profile prog artists, albeit in a more "conventional" way. Can't pick a winner!

A reason why I thought of this is because often when talking about the big ten or twelve of Prog, both Kansas' name (I have seen this a great deal) and Magma's name come up. I would sooner put Magma there, but others would sooner put Kansas. It does depend on your perspective/angle and one's location and interests can factor into it. Both bands have been considered very important from their countries of origin. Both have been influential. Both have had a significant effect on Prog and on Prog audiences.

While this is not asking which style you prefer, I would say that both do have similarities at times.

For a preference battle, these two lives from their first issued live albums could be fun to compare (not very similar, but the violin):

Cristi wrote: A strange pairing in the poll, definitely.

Saperlipopette! wrote: Grumpyprogfan wrote: ^Billy is awesome. I'm sure we could list plenty of European artists that torture you. Most bands are torture. Regardless of where they are from. I know Billy is in a differnt league and bigger than the others I mentioned. Hence the "even". Personally I find him utterly boring though. He's internationally bigger than I thought too. So I should have used someone else. Some southern rock or country rock band would have been safer:). Or some of the AOR that hardly anyone outside the anglosphere noticed. Bands such as Journey and Boston are mostly known for one song each.  I don't think I - or you own the world. And I don't know why you ask.

I would think that if you listen to classic rock radio, wherever that might be, you probably know more than one song from Journey and Boston.

As far as these AOR bands not having much success beyond the Anglosphere ( assuming you mean US, Canada and to lesser extent Britain and Australia) that depends. Could say that about any genre of music where some artists have international success and some just successful domestically. But here are a few of the big AOR artists:

Journey: 3 Gold and 1 Platinum certified albums in Japan.

Toto: Japan ( 2 Gold / 1 Platinum); Germany ( 1 Gold / 1 Platinum); Sweden ( 1 Gold / 1 Platinum); Netherlands ( 2 Platinum); Finland (1 Gold)

Foreigner: Germany ( 2 Platinum / 1 Gold); France ( 2 Gold)

Of course for a band to have an album be certified, an artist/ label has to request it. Many don't ( there are reasons for this, a big one being cost) Some of these bands popularity go beyond whether they have a certified gold or platinum album. Cheap Trick, for example, was very popular in Japan, yet not one album of theirs has been certified. David Bowie was a huge international artist, sold 140 million albums worldwide but, if you went strictly by his certification of albums it would suggest he had far fewer albums sold and was only really popular in the US, UK and Canada, which we know is not true.

Big Sky wrote: Holdsworth is certainly a musician that I think of as progressive in the truest sense of the word.

Your input on these forums, for me, is much appreciated.

Cheers 🍻

David_D wrote: David_D wrote: Actually, I'd say, Magma has a very special status in the world of Prog as being the only originator of a whole and even quite  significant sub-genre.

^I'm not familiar with Zeuhl, but I don't believe all 74 bands mentioned in the Zeuhl subgenre on PA were influenced by Magma. That would be similar to me saying all bands in the Heavy Prog subgenre are influenced by Rush.

We should strive, and by we I definitely mean me, to put on a more civil and friendly face. To be an attractive forum, it should seem welcoming and I think tolerant. Advising others is good, but done tactfully is best.

Grumpyprogfan wrote: ^I'm not familiar with Zeuhl, but I don't believe all 74 bands mentioned in the Zeuhl subgenre on PA were influenced by Magma. That would be similar to me saying all bands in the Heavy Prog subgenre are influenced by Rush.

The analogy does not compel me. It's very clear that Rush did not influence many in Heavy Prog, and in fact my favourite Heavy Prog generally came out before Rush even began. Magma had many musicians who came and went and created their own bands/albums and worked with other bands as an influence, which is one reason why Zeuhl became so robust. And those would play with others and bring in that influence. Quite a few are in Japan (often bands with the same stables of musicians), but you find Italy and a variety of places. I think any bands with no Magma influence in Zeuhl would be outliers (I don't know of any) and I know there a lot of bands inspired by Magma that are not in PA, and you'll find Magma influenced ones in Zeuhl, RIO and Avant Prog, Eclectic and Folk. I used to be a Zeuhl completest. There are so many Magma related acts, and stables of musicians who worked together inspired by Magma. One question might be, how many acts that did not have musicians that worked with/alongside Magma can be found in Zeuhl?

Some not included in Zeuhl here off the top of my head (I have not double-checked):

Art Zoyd
Vortex
Heldon
Kultivator
Birds and Buildings
Chrome Hoof
Shamblemaths, I think

Johnny Rotten, by the way, has stated his appreciation for Magma (he admires a lot of the same music that I do), as well as Mikael Åkerfeldt of Opeth and Steven Wilson and Travis Ryan of Cattle Decapitation (I liked their last album).

And Jeff, just in case it was not clear to any, I was not posting to disagree with you but to share my own angles of interest while using your thoughts as a springboard. I deliberately made this so one could approach the question in a variety of ways and share opinions based on variety of frameworks of which one conceives. I was interested to see which approaches people come up with as well as the conversation. I genuinely appreciate all here for their takes on the question.

Edited by Logan - January 31 2024 at 10:25

^ Thanks so much. And how I could forgot Guapo as one of the bands not included in Zeuhl with a definite Magma influence? It's one of the great "modern" bands. And it was very talked about band here. And Rahmann, in JRF as I recall, is a favourite of mine. I really like all of those. I had thought Noa was in the direct Magma camp through a musician, but now looking it up, I really just don't know, ah umm, yeah.

Edited by Logan - January 31 2024 at 10:38

David_D wrote: Cristi wrote: And I am problematic?!. Sure!  I wouldn't mind to have as good relation with you as we had it about two years ago.