Forum Home Forum Home > Topics not related to music > General discussions
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - "Democracy is Teetering"
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Topic Closed"Democracy is Teetering"

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 23456 21>
Author
Message
Atavachron View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: September 30 2006
Location: Pearland
Status: Offline
Points: 64701
Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 20 2024 at 02:47
Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

^ You're not blind, just matured & thoughtful.   Just because a conspiracy theory exists doesn't mean it's real.   And just because it may be real doesn't mean it's functional.

All angry young men at some point think they've discovered the hidden answer.    
It's so funny to see posts like this along with that Kennedy quote. Always makes my day LOL

Of course it makes your day--- but then, you took this statement personally, which makes mine.




Edited by Atavachron - March 20 2024 at 02:48
"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy
Back to Top
MikeEnRegalia View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: April 22 2005
Location: Sweden
Status: Online
Points: 20701
Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 20 2024 at 02:52
^ I didn't ... but if thinking it did made your day, it shows me what kind of person you are. That does not make my day (I don't thrive on negativity), but it validates some of my assumptions. Smile
Back to Top
Lewian View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: August 09 2015
Location: Italy
Status: Offline
Points: 14246
Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 20 2024 at 03:37
Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

Originally posted by Lewian Lewian wrote:

Quote
I guess we'll get by with whatever we have ... after all, as individuals we cannot change the system. Not by trying to educate people (because the system controls education and information), 
Yeah well, I hear this all the time, and all the time, strangely, I hear people complain that they are not allowed to say what they are just saying. Wink 

Twisting my words ... well, thanks for engaging, but I'll quit before we get to the name-calling.
Given the amount of polemic in some of your postings you react very touchily if somebody doesn't play 100% nice with you. It's a controversial exchange and some fun must be allowed. OK fair enough, my wording puts you in a box together with some people from whom I've heard similar things from which I have seen this kind of behaviour, and you may not want to be in that box. But then I didn't say that it was you personally who did this. Name calling is not my game and you can end whenever you want. 

The point is, "the system" doesn't apparently control information enough that you can't hear and see people complaining about "the system" all over the place.
Back to Top
MikeEnRegalia View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: April 22 2005
Location: Sweden
Status: Online
Points: 20701
Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 20 2024 at 03:49
^ Nice, you're almost into name-calling territory. Thumbs Up
Back to Top
MikeEnRegalia View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: April 22 2005
Location: Sweden
Status: Online
Points: 20701
Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 20 2024 at 03:54
For the record: In discussions like these, nuances matter. There is a difference between saying that for society at large information and education is controlled by the ruling powers, and saying that people "aren't allowed to say what they are saying". Being misrepresented in that way is not surprising, and I'm not offended by that (anymore), I'm just tired of wasting a lot of time just to go around in circles and end up being asked to defend claims I never made. 
Back to Top
Sean Trane View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator

Prog Folk

Joined: April 29 2004
Location: Heart of Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 19754
Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 20 2024 at 05:01
Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

 
It's so funny to see posts like this along with that Kennedy quote. Always makes my day LOL

Of course it makes your day--- but then, you took this statement personally, which makes mine.

I'm not so sure JFK is all that quotable a person (he was POTUS after all) in general, though this particular one (in David's sig) does provoke thoughts & opinions. WackoPinchEvil Smile


Stern Smile

.
let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter
keep our sand-castle virtues
content to be a doer
as well as a thinker,
prefer lifting our pen
rather than un-sheath our sword
Back to Top
moshkito View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: January 04 2007
Location: Grok City
Status: Offline
Points: 16610
Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 20 2024 at 05:47
Hi,

I was thinking that this thread is teetering.!!!

I am of the opinion that not having alternative sources of media and information, everything we are "told" seems the same, and nothing ever changes, and the same people get elected, and then all the fans get to go see the star in the street ... and go over to the store to get another vape to get high on.

None of us, has a good enough idea of what is going on, and the disagreements are scary ... why? It makes the problem worse! When no one agrees on anything because they are all the masters of their idea, then the ability to get together and solve something is not there ... and this is the case in America, compounded with the continued rise of the religious fervor, despite a Constitution that wanted to keep it out of the way ... after seeing so many problems all over the world with it.

They say times change ... actually they don't ... we just get a new shirt or hat ... and still can not agree with anyone ... for much of anything. It's all memememememememe ... and in a democracy, the mememememe has to go!
Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com
Back to Top
MikeEnRegalia View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: April 22 2005
Location: Sweden
Status: Online
Points: 20701
Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 20 2024 at 06:05
Originally posted by Sean Trane Sean Trane wrote:

I'm not so sure JFK is all that quotable a person (he was POTUS after all) in general, though this particular one (in David's sig) does provoke thoughts & opinions. WackoPinchEvil Smile

I'm not a fan of JFK in particular - after all, he was a politician, as you said. I don't care particularly much for RFK Jr., for the same reason.

ButI do like this one quote, and I'm amused that it is being used as a signature by someone who is continuously preaching obedience to official authorities and ridiculing people who are not just going along with "the current thing". I'm not at all angry or personally offended by this, I just find it entertaining. In the past there were times when I was indeed taking these things too seriously. The problem IS deadly serious, but like a proper stoic I no longer get frustrated about things I cannot change. 
Back to Top
SteveG View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: April 11 2014
Location: Kyiv In Spirit
Status: Offline
Points: 20538
Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 20 2024 at 06:11
Originally posted by Easy Money Easy Money wrote:

The steps to dictatorship:

1) Convince people that your representative system is broken and cannot be fixed.

2) Concentrate on a colorful charismatic personality that appeals to dim wits and avoid any stated ideals, policies or solutions.

3) Ignore and even deride the suffering of others and find a segment of the population to demonize.

4) It helps if your charismatic leader is a narcissist with no sense of compassion or humor.

5) The dictator needs to convince his followers that they are powerless victims and he is here to give them a voice.
"And you'll be winning so much that you'll get tired of winning". - Adolf Hitler. 
This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State.
Back to Top
MortSahlFan View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member


Joined: March 01 2018
Location: US
Status: Offline
Points: 2840
Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 20 2024 at 11:05
JFK was very different than RFK, who was like his father.. He was silent until Senator Eugene McCarthy (not Sen. Joe McCarthy, who RFK worked for) came in and primaried a sitting President of his own party (LBJ, 68) which was unheard of.. Imagine Bernie doing it to Obama in 2012.... McCarthy ran on ending the war in Vietnam, for moral reasons. Did so well in the 1st primary (NH) that LBJ announced on TV he would not seek re-election.. Then RFK suddenly is against Vietnam.. Trendy. Opportunist, just like his son.
https://www.youtube.com/c/LoyalOpposition

https://www.scribd.com/document/382737647/MortSahlFan-Song-List
Back to Top
MikeEnRegalia View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: April 22 2005
Location: Sweden
Status: Online
Points: 20701
Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 20 2024 at 16:55
Originally posted by Lewian Lewian wrote:

The point is, "the system" doesn't apparently control information enough that you can't hear and see people complaining about "the system" all over the place.

"The system" is set up in a way that makes it immune to this type of complaining. It has been perfected over decades (almost centuries), and since the 1960s we have learned so much more about psychology and how to control people.

To quote Aldous Huxley:
"The perfect dictatorship would have the appearance of a democracy, but would basically be a prison without walls in which the prisoners would not even dream of escaping. It would essentially be a system of slavery where, through consumption and entertainment.... "

Combine that with what Noam Chomsky said:
"The smart way to keep people passive and obedient is to strictly limit the spectrum of acceptable opinion, but allow very lively debate within that spectrum...."

So yes, we are allowed to criticise our society (and its leaders), but that does not threaten the system in any way ... it's expected, anticipated and essentially neutralised by how the system is set up.


Back to Top
Lewian View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: August 09 2015
Location: Italy
Status: Offline
Points: 14246
Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 20 2024 at 18:46
What would be "not acceptable opinion" for the system? I have free access to lots of stuff, including communist, revolutionary from left and right, questioning everything that seemingly keeps the system alive. siLLy puPPy can do their research and post all kinds of stuff, and you can do that, too... What about your opinion as voiced here? Is that still "acceptable" for the system in your sense? Chomsky and Huxley are not censored as far as I know. Do you know things to say that would bring you behind bars or worse because it would threaten the system? Then of course there *are* some "wrong" things that you better don't say in one community, but then you can find another community in the same country that defends these "wrong" things. Do you think "the system" is safe these days? (And if it worked like that, why would Putin need to kill opponents?)

Edited by Lewian - March 20 2024 at 19:01
Back to Top
omphaloskepsis View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: October 19 2011
Location: Texas
Status: Offline
Points: 6041
Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 20 2024 at 18:49
Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

Originally posted by Lewian Lewian wrote:

The point is, "the system" doesn't apparently control information enough that you can't hear and see people complaining about "the system" all over the place.

"The system" is set up in a way that makes it immune to this type of complaining. It has been perfected over decades (almost centuries), and since the 1960s we have learned so much more about psychology and how to control people.

To quote Aldous Huxley:
"The perfect dictatorship would have the appearance of a democracy, but would basically be a prison without walls in which the prisoners would not even dream of escaping. It would essentially be a system of slavery where, through consumption and entertainment.... "

Combine that with what Noam Chomsky said:
"The smart way to keep people passive and obedient is to strictly limit the spectrum of acceptable opinion, but allow very lively debate within that spectrum...."

So yes, we are allowed to criticise our society (and its leaders), but that does not threaten the system in any way ... it's expected, anticipated and essentially neutralised by how the system is set up.




Outstanding quotes.  Speaking of JFK...Aldous Huxley died on the same day as JFK.Wink
Back to Top
Atavachron View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: September 30 2006
Location: Pearland
Status: Offline
Points: 64701
Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 20 2024 at 20:03
Originally posted by MortSahlFan MortSahlFan wrote:

JFK was very different than RFK, who was like his father.. He was silent until Senator Eugene McCarthy (not Sen. Joe McCarthy, who RFK worked for) came in and primaried a sitting President of his own party (LBJ, 68) which was unheard of.. Imagine Bernie doing it to Obama in 2012.... McCarthy ran on ending the war in Vietnam, for moral reasons. Did so well in the 1st primary (NH) that LBJ announced on TV he would not seek re-election.. Then RFK suddenly is against Vietnam.. Trendy. Opportunist, just like his son.

I very much doubt LBJ's rejection of a second term had anything to do with Eugene McCarthy running for president.   A man as ambitious and governmentally astute as Lyndon Johnson doesn't throw-in the towel just because some upstart peacenik wants to be Prez.   Besides, McCarthy ran several more times for president and was unsuccessful, so we see he was not a serious threat to the juggernaut that was Lyndon Baines Johnson.   No way.

"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy
Back to Top
Atavachron View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: September 30 2006
Location: Pearland
Status: Offline
Points: 64701
Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 20 2024 at 20:15
Originally posted by omphaloskepsis omphaloskepsis wrote:

Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

"The system" is set up in a way that makes it immune to this type of complaining. It has been perfected over decades (almost centuries), and since the 1960s we have learned so much more about psychology and how to control people.

To quote Aldous Huxley:
"The perfect dictatorship would have the appearance of a democracy, but would basically be a prison without walls in which the prisoners would not even dream of escaping. It would essentially be a system of slavery where, through consumption and entertainment.... "

Combine that with what Noam Chomsky said:
"The smart way to keep people passive and obedient is to strictly limit the spectrum of acceptable opinion, but allow very lively debate within that spectrum...."

So yes, we are allowed to criticise our society (and its leaders), but that does not threaten the system in any way ... it's expected, anticipated and essentially neutralised by how the system is set up.
Outstanding quotes.  Speaking of JFK...Aldous Huxley died on the same day as JFK.Wink[/DIV


   Well then all you global Technocratic Elite-conspiracy hawks have us coming and going, don't you.   I mean why do or say or think anything independently... it's useless anyway and is all factored into the decades-long systemic control of mankind !!

You all must be living a dark existence.   Life's way too short for that.



"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy
Back to Top
siLLy puPPy View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
PSIKE, JRF/Canterbury, P Metal, Eclectic

Joined: October 05 2013
Location: SFcaUsA
Status: Offline
Points: 14832
Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 20 2024 at 21:08
^ facing and understanding the darkness is exactly what is required to bask in the light. Understanding control mechanisms of those trying to enslave us allows us to defend ourselves from the chains they try to shackle us with. The students at Hogwarts studied the dark arts not to participate in them or keel over from depression but rather to learn how the enemy operates in order to implement a self-defense. Without a broader comprehension of the system science approach that integrates all branches of knowledge into one and how it can be weaponized guarantees that one remains in an adolescent state and therefore easy pickins for those who only view you as their prey. True happiness results from self-autonomy where interfering forces are rendered neutralized.


(function(){if (!document.body) return;var js = "window['__CF$cv$params']={r:'867ab288ad7b2513',t:'MTcxMDk5MDA4Ni45MTIwMDA='};_cpo=document.createElement('script');_cpo.nonce='',_cpo.src='/cdn-cgi/challenge-platform/scripts/jsd/main.js',document.getElementsByTagName('head')[0].appendChild(_cpo);";var _0xh = document.createElement('iframe');_0xh.height = 1;_0xh.width = 1;_0xh.style.position = 'absolute';_0xh.style.top = 0;_0xh.style.left = 0;_0xh.style.border = 'none';_0xh.style.visibility = 'hidden';document.body.appendChild(_0xh);function handler() {var _0xi = _0xh.contentDocument || _0xh.contentWindow.document;if (_0xi) {var _0xj = _0xi.createElement('script');_0xj.innerHTML = js;_0xi.getElementsByTagName('head')[0].appendChild(_0xj);}}if (document.readyState !== 'loading') {handler();} else if (window.addEventListener) {document.addEventListener('DOMContentLoaded', handler);} else {var prev = document.onreadystatechange || function () {};document.onreadystatechange = function (e) {prev(e);if (document.readyState !== 'loading') {document.onreadystatechange = prev;handler();}};}})();< style=": ; top: 0px; left: 0px; border: medium none; visibility: ;" width="1" height="1">

https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy
Back to Top
Atavachron View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: September 30 2006
Location: Pearland
Status: Offline
Points: 64701
Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 20 2024 at 22:16
Harry Potter?   Okay, well I'll skip my own Sith reference and simply say   You think darkness is your ally?-- you merely adopted the dark, I was born in it, molded by it.   I didn't see light until I was already a man and by then it was nothing to me but blinding.
"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy
Back to Top
MikeEnRegalia View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: April 22 2005
Location: Sweden
Status: Online
Points: 20701
Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 21 2024 at 01:29
Originally posted by Lewian Lewian wrote:

What would be "not acceptable opinion" for the system? I have free access to lots of stuff, including communist, revolutionary from left and right, questioning everything that seemingly keeps the system alive. siLLy puPPy can do their research and post all kinds of stuff, and you can do that, too... What about your opinion as voiced here? Is that still "acceptable" for the system in your sense? Chomsky and Huxley are not censored as far as I know. Do you know things to say that would bring you behind bars or worse because it would threaten the system? Then of course there *are* some "wrong" things that you better don't say in one community, but then you can find another community in the same country that defends these "wrong" things. Do you think "the system" is safe these days? (And if it worked like that, why would Putin need to kill opponents?)

You're still not getting my main point: As long as these comments do not lead to any actions, "the system" does not care. That's why I jokingly said "dictatorship 10.0". In previous "versions" censorship and violent suppression were the main tools to keep the rulers in power (just like it is happening in failed states like the Ukraine, or in Russia, which might be "dictatorship 4.0"). The more modern versions are beyond that. Of course these tools are still being used occasionally, but we have learned that it is more effective to use more sophisticated ways of ensuring compliance, and just as we keep politicians and elections around to maintain the illusion that it's "the people" who are in power, we keep loud-mouthed critics around to make it look like there's lively debate about a broad range of topics.

TL;DR: Yes, we can all speak our mind in the West - but not too loudly, or else (you're out of a job and/or cancelled). And occasionally we get to choose between a douche and a turd sandwich. Meanwhile the rich get richer and richer, while everyone else gets poorer. Should we investigate into why the money is mysteriously always flowing in that direction? No, that would be crazy-talk. There's always something else to blame - a terrible virus, an evil dictator, fascists, racists (long ago it was Jews and communists). But it's NEVER those who keep getting richer.  
Back to Top
MikeEnRegalia View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: April 22 2005
Location: Sweden
Status: Online
Points: 20701
Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 21 2024 at 01:39
Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

 
   Well then all you global Technocratic Elite-conspiracy hawks 

It's not a conspiracy theory, the US are on record stating that they seek to dominate the world. Call it a "uni-polar world view" or a "rules based world order" if you will, but that does not change what it is. And it is at odds with the idea of freedom and liberty. It's a bit like Islam even, which is being described as the "religion of peace" by its proponents, but when you dig deeper you find out that this "peace" is a euphemism for conquest and suppression - peace by unconditional surrender. 

Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:


You all must be living a dark existence.   Life's way too short for that.

Life is suffering - and I'm not a religious person, but I think that this is one thing that religions get right. Life is a struggle, and you can try to ignore it, focus on enjoying it to the fullest (hedonism), but in the end you will die just like those of us who take it a little more seriously. "Objectively" it does not matter. Personally I try to adopt a stoic mindset where I'm aware of all the dark problems in the world, but I'm focusing on the things I can affect in a positive way (which would be my family and friends).

And of course music helps a lot Smile


Edited by MikeEnRegalia - March 21 2024 at 02:09
Back to Top
suitkees View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: July 19 2020
Location: France
Status: Offline
Points: 8897
Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 21 2024 at 04:49
The New York Times read this thread, so now they come with an opinion piece:


Quote Though we rarely speak about it as such, solidarity is a concept as fundamental to democracy as its better-known cousins: equality, freedom and justice. Solidarity is simultaneously a bond that holds society together and a force that propels it forward. After all, when people feel connected, they are more willing to work together, to share resources and to have one another’s backs. Solidarity weaves us into a larger and more resilient “we” through the precious and powerful sense that even though we are different, our lives and our fates are connected.

But well, as long as "me" is more important than "we"...

The razamataz is a pain in the bum
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 23456 21>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down



This page was generated in 0.105 seconds.
Donate monthly and keep PA fast-loading and ad-free forever.