Crimson are good shocker!!

BaldFriede wrote: arcer wrote: BaldFriede wrote: arcer wrote: BaldFriede wrote: Well, I don't think it has dated at all, and I still listen to it often and enjoy it every time. And you misunderstand my comment about "right perspective"; that only refers to your criticism of the "meandering 60s psychedelia". In fact these "meandering psychedelia" are very much loved by me, and I miss them in many of today's albums (which I call "trite"). I also have a different name for these "meandering psychedelia"; I call them "free flights of imagination". meanwhile (I'm quite enjoying this argument - and please don't take it as baiting, I'm just interested in the debate) Friede again mentions "right perspective". What is the right perspective? How do I attain that perspective to the point where "meandering psychedlia" becomes "free flights of imagination". I don't understand your point regarding perspective? I'll answer your question about "perspective" with a quote from Japanese tea-master Kobori Enshu: "At first I praised the artist for his paintings. Now I praise myself for appreciating what the artist has chosen for me". That's just nonsense! And egomaniacal. And evasive. I'd rather praise the artist for producing music that still sounded viable rather than congratulate myself for raiding the internet for a pseudo-mystical quote from a japanese bloke with a PG Tips fetish. I might as well say ITCOTCK is rubbish because as the great Japanese sensei Mr Miyagi said: "wax on, wax off." Anyway I have never yet met any real artist who produced/chose art for the people who consume it. They do it to please themselves. Are medieval paintings outdated? Artists have learned so much more about perspective over the centuries, but that doesn't stop me from admiring a medieval artist as well. Or does anybody laugh about Newton because Einstein created the theory of relativity, which proved Newton wrong in many ways? Or is a tragedy by Sophokles or Euripides outdated, because Beckett or Ionesco wrote much more modern work? No, of course not!

Really good argument! I get where you're coming from now. I'll offer this in response. Admiring a medieval painting informed by the knowledge that the techniques have been developed and bettered, which seems to be what you're suggesting, is to acknowledge the 'of-its-timeness' of the artwork, thereby acknowledging its limitations but appreciating the artistry of the project. Also the kind of appreciation you seem to be talking about has at its core a kind of detachment and relativism that , in my opnion, should not exist when appreciating music. It should, for me, as I said above, be a visceral connection, beyond the kind of the detached analysis that says, 'well if you understand the context in which this was made then you will 'get' the music'. You shouldn't have to contextualise music. Sure it might enhance the experience eventually, but first you have to love the music, from the moment you hear it. ITCOTCK never did it for me. Red does. Maybe we should agree to differ