The REAL problem with prog-metal: is not prog-rock - Progressive Rock Music Forum

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MikeEnRegalia View Drop Down

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Posted: August 29 2008 at 07:30

^ What if we don't exist at all? Wink

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Petrovsk Mizinski View Drop Down

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Posted: August 29 2008 at 07:32

at last two posts.

mr70s

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Posted: August 29 2008 at 07:39

What if there were no such thing as language ?

Certif1ed

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Posted: August 29 2008 at 07:53

Whdsf fshkj r9uet lkb nmlkdbf oidgdflk lkjlkpj lkjf[[[[sdf millenium hand and shrimp?

The important thing is not to stop questioning.

Petrovsk Mizinski View Drop Down

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Posted: August 29 2008 at 07:54

Wow, this veered incredibly off topic LOL

mr70s

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Posted: August 29 2008 at 08:33

Certif1ed wrote:

Whdsf fshkj r9uet lkb nmlkdbf oidgdflk lkjlkpj lkjf[[[[sdf millenium hand and shrimp?

Exactly.

akin

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Posted: August 29 2008 at 09:36

mr70s wrote:

Certif1ed wrote:

Whdsf fshkj r9uet lkb nmlkdbf oidgdflk lkjlkpj lkjf[[[[sdf millenium hand and shrimp?

Exactly.

No, I disagree with all this.

sleeper

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Posted: August 29 2008 at 12:48

Certif1ed wrote:

Whdsf fshkj r9uet lkb nmlkdbf oidgdflk lkjlkpj lkjf[[[[sdf millenium hand and shrimp?

Hmmm........ Foul Ole' Ron seems to have hijacked Certs computer. Tongue

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Certif1ed

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Posted: August 29 2008 at 16:54

akin wrote:

mr70s wrote:

Certif1ed wrote:

Whdsf fshkj r9uet lkb nmlkdbf oidgdflk lkjlkpj lkjf[[[[sdf millenium hand and shrimp?

Exactly.

No, I disagree with all this.

HughesJB4 wrote:

Wow, this veered incredibly off topic LOL

Not really - if you think about it, we're still on the topic of how hard it is to define something or get a concept across.

My last statement obviously communicated something that meant something - different things to different people - just like the form of music under discussion, and could be taken as a deep philosophical interpretation of the challenges we face...

Or, of course, you could be completely and utterly right - but it's cool that a thread like this with a potentially hackle-raising topic, has dissolved into laughter instead of fisticuffs.

Quite... back on topic everyone...

The important thing is not to stop questioning.

mr70s

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Posted: August 29 2008 at 18:02

The trouble with definitions, particularly musical ones, is that once this morphing body that is language has misinterpreted, misunderstood, chewed them and spat them out, they won't resemble the original form. Maybe we shouldn't be too precious with our musical definitions, since once they are released 'into the wild', they will change on a daily basis beyond our control.

LeInsomniac View Drop Down

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Posted: August 29 2008 at 18:08

^ That´s why, this site genres definitions cant'be immutable. Music changes everyday and morphs, so our definitions of what certain sub-genre is or music genre is HAS to change with it; otherwise what this site stands for nowadays, which is progressive music, it's meaning will be lost.

This is what it means for me at least.

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Clepsydra

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Posted: August 29 2008 at 23:56

I like Prog-Metal about as much as I would like to go to the dentist & get a tooth drilled!!

I hate it!!! (imo)

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Posted: August 30 2008 at 16:40

LeInsomniac wrote:

^ That´s why, this site genres definitions cant'be immutable. Music changes everyday and morphs, so our definitions of what certain sub-genre is or music genre is HAS to change with it; otherwise what this site stands for nowadays, which is progressive music, it's meaning will be lost.

This is what it means for me at least.

A very good point - and this is exactly why there should at least be a definition - even if it's not 100% correct, or even 50% correct (most current definitions of Prog Metal on the internet appear to be factually incorrect) - or has to be changed over time as the music gets redefined.

Look at heavy metal itself - the band that called themselves The Heavy Metal Kids in 1967 were very different to Blue Cheer, who many regard as the original metal band, or the band that called themselves The Heavy Metal Kids in 1974. Blue Cheer were, in turn, very different to Black Sabbath, who were very different to Judas Priest, Iron Maiden, Motorhead, Metallica, Fear Factory, Killswitch Engage, Slipknot, Dragonforce...

Definitions may change, but the music has a history, and certain characteristics in the music and attitudes remain constant. The history of metal co-incides all the way with the history of Progressive Rock, and shares many of the same attitudes. The main question is which metal is Progressive, and which isn't - and how do we tell the difference (even if it's a fuzzy difference) - and I think T's post goes some way to describing it.

The important thing is not to stop questioning.

Avantgardehead View Drop Down

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Posted: August 30 2008 at 17:32

There's a group on Last.fm called "True Progressive Metal" which is associated with the likes of maudlin of the Well/Kayo Dot, Enslaved, Novembre, Frantic Bleep, Madder Mortem, Devin Townsend, etc., all who I think are actually metal bands who progress.

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ihatethesnp View Drop Down

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Posted: August 30 2008 at 23:54

My problem with so called prog metal, is that it doesn't exist, except in someones mind.

Nearly all music can be defined as progressive, but this site allows certain values, but not others. I.E Iron Maiden, great heavy metal band, Dream Theater, crap heavy metal band with keyboards, but which one is prog?

It's a shame this isn't a UK site, that would soon sort the good from the dross.

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Posted: August 31 2008 at 00:02

ihatethesnp wrote:

My problem with so called prog metal, is that it doesn't exist, except in someones mind.

It's a shame this isn't a UK site, that would soon sort the good from the dross.

Iron Maiden is not prog metal by the way, their just related and they were a huge influence on the genre IMHO. And just cause you don't like a band it doesn't mean it's crap it's just not suitable to your tastes because I do think Dream Theater is a good band. You should add in your opinion to that statement. And by the way prog metal does exist buddy. Just look around you and you'll see. You just haven't heard it.

Edited by burritounit - August 31 2008 at 00:04

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ihatethesnp View Drop Down

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Posted: August 31 2008 at 00:16

Prog metal only exists in the Americas.................DT couldn't lace Iron Maidens boots.

I've heard it and it stinks.

Edited by ihatethesnp - August 31 2008 at 00:16

russellk

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Posted: August 31 2008 at 00:26

ihatethesnp wrote:

Prog metal only exists in the Americas.................DT couldn't lace Iron Maidens boots.

I've heard it and it stinks.

All of which says a great deal about you and nothing at all about prog metal. I'd be interested if you demonstrated the ability to tell us convincingly WHY it stinks.

burritounit View Drop Down

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Posted: August 31 2008 at 00:31

Again, add the "In MY OPINION" phrase to your statement. You wouldn't like it if someone said that the music you like stinks. They don't stink, cause I like them very much and you'll find other people that also do which means they don't. And I think prog metal is not limited to the Americas I think they come from various places around the world. See here: http://www.progarchives.com/subgenre.asp?style=19

And that's just one part of the genre.

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sleeper

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Posted: August 31 2008 at 05:55

ihatethesnp wrote:

My problem with so called prog metal, is that it doesn't exist, except in someones mind.

It's a shame this isn't a UK site, that would soon sort the good from the dross.

Have you heard most British bands? We've got a fair few "stinkers" over here as well, IMO (Final Conflict, Solstice, It Bites anyone).

Judging by your posts, I reckon you havnt actually listened to much, if any, Prog Metal. And I was so hoping we'ed done away with all the "all PM sounds like DT" trolls. Ermm

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