Christian Prog

Miaugion wrote: PS: I have no problem with formulaic commercial acts like Heart, Foreigner, Bad English or Triumph, no problem at all. But I can understand why they make a lot of people cringe. Along the same lines, I think you should, at least, try to understand why many people say Morse's stuff is cringeworthy and banal.

It's odd - most people seem to think that he's a great artist. Just read the reviews on this website and on any other prog related website ... of course I accept that there are many people who don't like him - and a small minority which includes you who think that he's crap. It's no big deal, there are also people who think that Genesis suck or CttE is hugely overrated ... suits me fine.

Miaugion wrote: MikeEnRegalia wrote: Miaugion wrote: PS: I have no problem with formulaic commercial acts like Heart, Foreigner, Bad English or Triumph, no problem at all. But I can understand why they make a lot of people cringe. Along the same lines, I think you should, at least, try to understand why many people say Morse's stuff is cringeworthy and banal. It's odd - most people seem to think that he's a great artist. Just read the reviews on this website and on any other prog related website ... Jesus, please clean your windows! I didn't talk about his musical capabilities. IMO "Go the Way you go", "On the Edge", "Beware of Darkness", "The Doorway", "Walking on the Wind", "In the Mouth of Madness", "June", "Flow", "Day for Night", "At the End of the Day", "Long Time Suffering", "Love Beyond Words", "Open up the flood Gates", "Solitary Soul", "Wind at my Back" and "Carie" are wonderful. He has earned his corner in the hall of fame of creative (and retrospective ...) neo-proggaz. But on the other hand I just love mother nature for giving human beings the ability to ignore the lyrics if they are not what one's looking for.

I - and most of the other reviewers - are talking about the music AND the lyrics. Please don't make me quote their (positive) comments about his lyrics ...

BTW: I guess you intentionally left out songs from Testimony and One ... what about the music on these albums?

Miaugion wrote: MikeEnRegalia wrote: BTW: I guess you intentionally left out songs from Testimony and One ... Indeed!! That's because I haven't listened to them yet. "Testimony" was much too expensive for my taste, and by the time "One" was released I had (sort of) lost my interest in following the Morsians since the former projects (Transatlantic, first solo albums) didn't convince me the way SB did. Therefore I'll probably never listen to his solo stuff. You just have to decide what you spend your money on.

Your logic escapes me - Testimony and One are the best albums he ever made - very similar to The Light. And for someone who never listened to them you have quite some nerve to bash them the way you do ...

This was what you wrote:

 ... didn't convince me the way SB did

[... lot's of SB songs] are wonderful. He has earned his corner in the hall of fame of creative (and retrospective ...) neo-proggaz.

You obviously like Spock's Beard (Morse Aera).
BTW: SB are not a Neo-Prog band - but let's not discuss this here.

Morse could have built a whole story about visual barriers (veils, fog, sleep) around the first line "I can't see your throne" to create a bit of depth. Instead he jumps from topic to topic and equips his lyrical protagonist with a nearly omniscient point of view. Of course, the protagonist seems to be aware of his faults and the faults of mankind. That's the way teenagers (and most Metal writers) couch their inexperienced thoughts. The outcome is very, very (I mean: very!) bland most of the time.     

These lyrics are from one of the albums which you don't know. Yet you call them bland (to be precise: "very, very (I mean: very!) bland". Maybe you should listen to the song first - you cannot discuss lyrics without knowing the song. The music is quite "deep" here, and doesn't lend itself to eloquent lyrics.

I'm trying to discuss the Neal Morse solo albums, as the topic is "Christian Prog", and they're good examples.

Please, explain to me in what way am I "preaching"? I just pointed out at one point that the album get good reviews. If you consider that preachy, you should try to avoid this forum in general.

BTW: You said that you can listen to music and ignore the lyrics - I can't. But for someone who claims who can, you make quite some fuss about them ...

ELP

http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9946&a mp;PN=0&TPN=1

Arteum wrote: ELP http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9946&a mp;a mp;PN=0&TPN=1

Hallowed Be Thy Name

(written by Greg Lake & Peter Sinfield)

There may be an om in moment
But there's very few folk in focus
Not the first, not the last, not the least.
You needn't be well to be wealthy
But you've got to be whole to be holy
Fetch the rope, fetch the cloak, fetch the priest.
Oh this planet of ours is a mess
I bet Heaven's the same
Look the madman said, "Son,
As a friend, tell me what's in a name,"
Hallowed be thy name.

I give you the state of statesmen
And the key to what motivates them
On the left, on the right, on the nail.
Still I don't see a man in a mansion
That an accurate pen won't puncture
Go to town, go to hell, go to jail.
And there's bars and saloons
Where the jukebox plays blues in the night
Till the madman says "Son,
Time to go we could both use some light"
And thy will be done.

We live in an age of cages
The tale of an ape escaping
In the search for some truth he can use
But many a drunk got drunker
And mostly a thinker, thunker
Set the place, set the time, set the fuse,
The optimist laughed and the pessimist cried in his wine
And the madman said "Son,
Take a word they'll all wake given time"
Let thy kingdom come.

The madman and I got drunker
Till both thought the other thank you
And we laughed all the way to the stars
The optimist asked for a taste of the pessimist's wine
And the madman said "Son,
How do you feel?" I said "Me? I feel fine
Lead me into temptation
Into temptation
I said into temptation
I need my allocation of recreation
I want a revelation in degradation
No hesitation, give me variation, give me inspiration..."

Miaugion wrote: MikeEnRegalia wrote: Please, explain to me in what way am I "preaching"? I've just smelt a very preachy miasma round here as you started dissecting my sentences to create a bunch of whole new meanings. The fragments began to say the opposite of what they had been intended to say in their natural contextual habitats. You probably intended to wipe away any plausibility from the way I voiced my honest disapproval of the Morsian way of planting word forests.

Likewise. BTW: Don't you notice how preachy you are yourself - against Morse? "YOUR honest disapproval" ... this cleverly implies that my statements are not honest.

Miaugion wrote: MikeEnRegalia wrote: BTW: You said that you can listen to music and ignore the lyrics - I can't. Fair enough. Well, people are different, I suppose. I for one have to ignore the lyrics most of the time if I want to find pleasure in music as my lyrical standards are probably quite high. If the lyrics aren't eloquent or charming or witty or funny or inventive or innovative or if they don't tell me things I didn't already know I simply have to ignore them so that they a cannot "harm" the musical content.

Well, maybe you're the most intelligent person in the forum. I'm glad that I'm an idiot, that enables me to enjoy such lyrics more than you.

miaugion wrote: MikeEnRegalia wrote: But for someone who claims who can, you make quite some fuss about them ... Not really. You just said they're amazing. I said they're banal and badly written and felt I had to explain why I didn't care for them. I just didn't want to come across like an impolite heckler.

Very clever again ... the gentle art of making enemies. Say one thing and mean the other ...

Miaugion wrote: PS: If you can't ignore lyrics when you listen to music - would you say that all the bands you love are capable of writing lyrics that are equally good? That would be strange as I for one can see huge differences between the standards of the lyricists whose music I listen to regularly.

I'm not "immune" to bad lyrics, if that's what you mean. I like Rhapsody, and listening to it sometimes makes me cringe with embarassment ... I can tolerate the lyrics, but I can't ignore them.

Miaugion wrote: MikeEnRegalia wrote: Don't you notice how preachy you are yourself - against Morse? "YOUR honest disapproval" ... this cleverly implies that my statements are not honest. No. That doesn't imply that "your statements are not honest". Please visit "The Beginner's guide to interpreting texts" or something. It really gets annoying.     MikeEnRegalia wrote: Miaugion wrote: MikeEnRegalia wrote: BTW: You said that you can listen to music and ignore the lyrics - I can't. Fair enough. Well, people are different, I suppose. I for one have to ignore the lyrics most of the time if I want to find pleasure in music as my lyrical standards are probably quite high. If the lyrics aren't eloquent or charming or witty or funny or inventive or innovative or if they don't tell me things I didn't already know I simply have to ignore them so that they a cannot "harm" the musical content.      Well, maybe you're the most intelligent person in the forum. I'm glad that I'm an idiot, that enables me to enjoy such lyrics more than you. Again, this doesn't imply anything - above all it doesn't imply you're more idiotic than anybody else. I've just tried to explain why I have to ignore the lyrics by most lyricists. My lyrical standards are probably higher than my musical standards and if the lyrics cannot hold a candle to Waters's, Anderson's or Mr. Dick's I cannot stand them and have to ignore them to enjoy the music. You, on the other hand, take refuge in sarcasm - for no reason at all. Nothing I wrote was intended to deal with you in a depreciative way. MikeEnRegalia wrote: miaugion wrote: MikeEnRegalia wrote: But for someone who claims who can, you make quite some fuss about them ... Not really. You just said they're amazing. I said they're banal and badly written and felt I had to explain why I didn't care for them. I just didn't want to come across like an impolite heckler.      Very clever again ... the gentle art of making enemies. Say one thing and mean the other ... Huh? What?? I said: "I just didn't want to come across like an impolite heckler", and I meant to say that I didn't want to come across like an impolite heckler. There was not a speck of irony in that sentence. I can only shake my head in disbelief because of the way you read posts ... Are you looking for enemies? Paranoid? Do posters on a forum have to be enemies? Please do not project bad intentions onto every sentence you come across. Even the emoticon => <= wasn't meant ironically.

Well, if none of your statements was meant ironically or in a sarcastic way, then I

apologize.

Can we talk about something else now?