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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 02 2023 at 12:01
Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

^ Maybe--   he's a very smart retired physician who got into to UFOs decades ago and now claims billions of misappropriated dollars have been spent on secret technology...and that he's seen aliens.   He's a convincing but problematic figure.   But I kinda like him.


That's good enough for me. I'll check him out. Thanks David.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 02 2023 at 12:07
Hi,

I'm of the thought that America really needs a 3rd party ... and one that will not exactly affiliate itself with the same thing as all that is happening right now. And the amount of misinformation that Congress continues to work on and using taxpayer money for ... however, there is a sad side to all this ... Americans can vote, and many don't and this is a vote for the "other side" ... it's bizarre to see a state with so many "minorities" and they do not dominate anything ... it's down right scary!

I guess it's more Biden's and more Trump's for us all! Just what we wanted! A woman will never get a chance, and another Obame, will also not have a chance for the next 25 to 30 years, or the next generation!

I don't have an answer ... although I hope the "thunderdome" kills off some of the worst contenders for public office, that somehow got "elected"!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 02 2023 at 13:31
Originally posted by CosmicVibration CosmicVibration wrote:

entanglement
 
I think pop science has a lot to answer for with it sacrificing the truth for the sake of hype. Although quantum entanglement cannot be understood in classical terms, it is not as strange as commonly portrayed. In particular, quantum entanglement cannot be used to communicate information. That is, if I have a collection of quantum entities, and my partner who is very far from me has the corresponding quantum entangled partners of my quantum entities, then there is nothing I can do to my quantum entities that will have any influence on the results of any measurements my partner performs on her quantum entities. This is the crucial limitation of quantum entanglement that prevents it from being the magical phenomenon suggested by the phrase "spooky action at a distance".
 
In the Einstein-Podolsky-Rosen thought experiment (or Aspect's real experiment), there is no actual communication between the entangled particles. Instead, one has an uncanny correlation between a pair of random particle states that cannot be explained in terms of classical physics. It might seem that the outcome of a measurement of one particle has somehow communicated itself to the other particle, and the use of the phrase "spooky action at a distance" promotes this notion, but this is merely an assumption based on thinking in classical terms. The impossibility of the experimenter to affect the state of one particle by manipulating its entangled partner represents the true limitation of quantum entanglement compared to the hype. It is often said that correlation is not causation. Quantum entanglement is correlation, communication is causation.
 
Nevertheless, quantum entanglement cannot be understood in classical terms. It requires the concept of a multi-particle quantum state, in particular the quantum superposition of multi-particle states. In the absence of quantum superposition, the correlation between multiple particles that occurs as a result of interaction between the particles can be understood in classical terms. But it is the quantum superposition of correlated multi-particle states that is quantum entanglement, and it is the quantum superposition that is why quantum entanglement can't be understood in classical terms. It should be also noted that a quantum superposition of uncorrelated multi-particle states is not entangled. The point is that measurement of a correlated multi-particle state is the measurement of all the particle states by the measurement of any one of the particle states. And once this measurement has been performed, the multi-particle state is no longer entangled because it is no longer a quantum superposition.
 

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 02 2023 at 14:03
Originally posted by I prophesy disaster I prophesy disaster wrote:

Originally posted by CosmicVibration CosmicVibration wrote:

entanglement
 
I think pop science has a lot to answer for with it sacrificing the truth for the sake of hype. Although quantum entanglement cannot be understood in classical terms, it is not as strange as commonly portrayed. In particular, quantum entanglement cannot be used to communicate information. That is, if I have a collection of quantum entities, and my partner who is very far from me has the corresponding quantum entangled partners of my quantum entities, then there is nothing I can do to my quantum entities that will have any influence on the results of any measurements my partner performs on her quantum entities. This is the crucial limitation of quantum entanglement that prevents it from being the magical phenomenon suggested by the phrase "spooky action at a distance".
 
In the Einstein-Podolsky-Rosen thought experiment (or Aspect's real experiment), there is no actual communication between the entangled particles. Instead, one has an uncanny correlation between a pair of random particle states that cannot be explained in terms of classical physics. It might seem that the outcome of a measurement of one particle has somehow communicated itself to the other particle, and the use of the phrase "spooky action at a distance" promotes this notion, but this is merely an assumption based on thinking in classical terms. The impossibility of the experimenter to affect the state of one particle by manipulating its entangled partner represents the true limitation of quantum entanglement compared to the hype. It is often said that correlation is not causation. Quantum entanglement is correlation, communication is causation.
 
Nevertheless, quantum entanglement cannot be understood in classical terms. It requires the concept of a multi-particle quantum state, in particular the quantum superposition of multi-particle states. In the absence of quantum superposition, the correlation between multiple particles that occurs as a result of interaction between the particles can be understood in classical terms. But it is the quantum superposition of correlated multi-particle states that is quantum entanglement, and it is the quantum superposition that is why quantum entanglement can't be understood in classical terms. It should be also noted that a quantum superposition of uncorrelated multi-particle states is not entangled. The point is that measurement of a correlated multi-particle state is the measurement of all the particle states by the measurement of any one of the particle states. And once this measurement has been performed, the multi-particle state is no longer entangled because it is no longer a quantum superposition.
 


Very interesting.  I've always thought there must be a better explanation than "spooky action at a distance".  I couldn't wrap my head around how information could be communicated faster than the speed of light. 
I'll take a long deep dive into quantum entanglement, emphasizing your explanation. Wink
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 02 2023 at 16:37
Originally posted by omphaloskepsis omphaloskepsis wrote:

Very interesting.  I've always thought there must be a better explanation than "spooky action at a distance".  I couldn't wrap my head around how information could be communicated faster than the speed of light. 
I'll take a long deep dive into quantum entanglement, emphasizing your explanation. Wink
 
In my explanation, I avoided the mathematics. But I can say that if a single-particle quantum state is a sum of basis vectors in Hilbert space, then a multi-particle quantum state is a sum of tensor products of the basis vectors of the corresponding single-particle states. Then a multi-particle quantum state is entangled if it is not separable as the tensor product of single-particle quantum states. A measurement of a single particle of a multi-particle system corresponds to forming the inner product of the multi-particle state with the basis vector corresponding to the outcome of the single-particle measurement. If the multi-particle quantum state is a tensor product of single-particle quantum states (ie not entangled), then the quantum state of the remaining unmeasured particles will be unchanged compared to their original quantum state. But if the multi-particle quantum state is a non-separable sum of tensor products (ie entangled), then the quantum state of the remaining unmeasured particles will depend on the outcome of the single-particle measurement. Thus, we have in the case of entangled quantum states the manifestation of correlation and the ability to determine the state of unmeasured particles from a measured particle, in contrast to the non-entangled quantum state without correlation and without the ability to determine the state of unmeasured particles.
 
I should also mention that quantum mechanics has pure states and mixed states, and these together complicate the above discussion. I have restricted my discussion to pure states.
 

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 02 2023 at 17:02
Originally posted by I prophesy disaster I prophesy disaster wrote:

Originally posted by omphaloskepsis omphaloskepsis wrote:

Very interesting.  I've always thought there must be a better explanation than "spooky action at a distance".  I couldn't wrap my head around how information could be communicated faster than the speed of light. 
I'll take a long deep dive into quantum entanglement, emphasizing your explanation. Wink
 
In my explanation, I avoided the mathematics. But I can say that if a single-particle quantum state is a sum of basis vectors in Hilbert space, then a multi-particle quantum state is a sum of tensor products of the basis vectors of the corresponding single-particle states. Then a multi-particle quantum state is entangled if it is not separable as the tensor product of single-particle quantum states. A measurement of a single particle of a multi-particle system corresponds to forming the inner product of the multi-particle state with the basis vector corresponding to the outcome of the single-particle measurement. If the multi-particle quantum state is a tensor product of single-particle quantum states (ie not entangled), then the quantum state of the remaining unmeasured particles will be unchanged compared to their original quantum state. But if the multi-particle quantum state is a non-separable sum of tensor products (ie entangled), then the quantum state of the remaining unmeasured particles will depend on the outcome of the single-particle measurement. Thus, we have in the case of entangled quantum states the manifestation of correlation and the ability to determine the state of unmeasured particles from a measured particle, in contrast to the non-entangled quantum state without correlation and without the ability to determine the state of unmeasured particles.
 
I should also mention that quantum mechanics has pure states and mixed states, and these together complicate the above discussion. I have restricted my discussion to pure states.
 



However you forgot to mention that such claims are merely theoretical given the imperceptible fluxing experienced in quantum observations. Likewise, much of science that is presented to us as "settled" and "factual" is in reality nothing more than the mental masturbatory gymnastics of eggheads who think they can comprehend things that are well beyond the perception of the limitations of the human intelligence. Quantum mechanics is nothing more than a THEORY of the structure and behavior of atoms and molecules. Like many such theories of the modern age, these primarily result from computerized simulations that are dependent upon the data fed by those who provide the input. Given the feeble limitations of the human condition, i would surmise it's next to impossible to provide such speculations with even close to absolute authority and many "accidental" results are often unrepeatable.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 02 2023 at 18:37
Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

However you forgot to mention that such claims are merely theoretical given the imperceptible fluxing experienced in quantum observations. Likewise, much of science that is presented to us as "settled" and "factual" is in reality nothing more than the mental masturbatory gymnastics of eggheads who think they can comprehend things that are well beyond the perception of the limitations of the human intelligence.
...
Hi,

We had some major issues at UCSB between the Drama Department and the English Department, over Shakespeare. It had to be "classic" which was a romanticized idea that was ... basically ... impossible for an audience that was drunk, standing up and waiting for jokes and gags to laugh ... and it is explained and told to us as some thing that a "pub audience" would never bother to see at all! Then, it would be nothing but a weekend entertainment for a few rich folks ... which didn't sound right either.

The English Dept always raked the impressions and different versions of Shakespeare and they disliked Richard III as a Nazi Dictator, just as much as they did the Midsummer Night's Dream on a kid's park amidst the fun structures! 

In other words, the "ideas" colored the possibility of a reality ever existing, and that is sad ... we end up going back to the scriptures and the bad translations, and horrible newscasting of events some 300 and 400 years later, and imaginary elements created so you CAN NOT HAVE  the experience ... it must be consigned to the specially ranked this and that!

I don't mistrust most of the sciences, but I do think they are too stuck up in themselves sometimes. The "reality" is missing, not that something unreal to us, is not possible, which should be but they will never allow for it ... in the name of education and higher learning ... makes a proper description of piled higher and deeper! (phd).


Edited by moshkito - October 02 2023 at 18:37
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 02 2023 at 22:37
Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

I don't mistrust most of the sciences, but I do think they are too stuck up in themselves sometimes. The "reality" is missing, not that something unreal to us, is not possible, which should be but they will never allow for it ... in the name of education and higher learning ... makes a proper description of piled higher and deeper! (phd).


There is good reason to distrust just about EVERYTHING including the sciences. About the only tangible branch of the science is engineering where you must actually learn how to navigate system sciences or suffer the consequences. Even much of biology (my major in college) is riddled with nothing but hypothetical constructs. There is much more wisdom in ancient systems sciences such as Traditional Chinese medicine, Ayurveda and indigenous healing systems than in modern Western biology but much of that is due to the Rockerfellers and Carnegies conspiring about 100 years ago to rid the world of holistic natural healing and replace nature's healing compounds with patented copies. This started with the Flexnor Report in 1910 and ramped up big time in the 1930s with the demonization of cannabis and other natural plant cures. For the most part the scientific method has been replaced by standardized consensus science that only favors profitable patents for major corporations all backed up by the force of the US military and secret service agencies.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 03 2023 at 07:16
Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

...
This started with the Flexnor Report in 1910 and ramped up big time in the 1930s with the demonization of cannabis and other natural plant cures. For the most part the scientific method has been replaced by standardized consensus science that only favors profitable patents for major corporations all backed up by the force of the US military and secret service agencies.

Hi,

Oh, btw, it continues today ... with the corporate rape of the medical community and medicare. I've seen 4 "urologists" and they are all ... you can only call them Flomax Pushers. Cue up Steppenwolf please! And the AMA and Medical Community exempt them from comments and punishments. I finally complained to the AG in the State of Washington who said ... nothing I can do about it. Not my jurisdiction. And you can not reach the AMA to make a comment, since they are the ones telling the institutions to rape Medicare and the American public!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 03 2023 at 07:33
Originally posted by I prophesy disaster I prophesy disaster wrote:

Originally posted by CosmicVibration CosmicVibration wrote:

  • The World Health Organization's upcoming pandemic treaty and the International Health Regulation (IHR) amendments are part of a global “soft coup” to strip nations of their sovereignty and people of their bodily autonomy and freedom
  • The WHO wants to put into law a requirement that nations must censor their citizens, so that only public health messages aligned with the WHO’s recommendations can be shared
  • The IHR amendments specify that the WHO will dictate which drugs countries must use, and which they cannot, in the event of a pandemic — and possibly outside of pandemics as well
  • The IHRs have been in existence since 1969, but in the current draft of the IHR amendments — the WHO’s recommendations — become edicts that must be followed rather than recommendations that nations can ignore at will
  • The treaty demands the fast-tracking of vaccines, along with liability waivers for vaccine manufacturers. The EU, U.S. and CEPI have already proposed a plan to develop vaccines in 100 days
  • The treaty will apply to all nations that sign on, all the time, even when there are no pandemics

 
Although it does seem rather Orwellian, I actually kind of agree with it. The purpose of the International Health Regulations, its amendments, and the pandemic treaty is to obligate nations to carry out actions that reduce the risk of deadly infections being spread to the rest of the world. It seems to me that it is mainly the anti-vaxxers and conspiracy theorists who would unequivocally oppose this. I think it's paranoid to think that the World Health Organization have a vested interest in controlling our daily lives. And I do think that when it comes to fighting a deadly pandemic, internet stupidity needs to be curbed.
 

I’m pro-freedom, pro-democracy, pro-choice and pro-science.  Can you see how this goes against all these concepts? I for one, am not willing to give them all up for a fake sense of security.


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 03 2023 at 07:37
Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

...
This started with the Flexnor Report in 1910 and ramped up big time in the 1930s with the demonization of cannabis and other natural plant cures. For the most part the scientific method has been replaced by standardized consensus science that only favors profitable patents for major corporations all backed up by the force of the US military and secret service agencies.

Hi,

Oh, btw, it continues today ... with the corporate rape of the medical community and medicare. I've seen 4 "urologists" and they are all ... you can only call them Flomax Pushers. Cue up Steppenwolf please! And the AMA and Medical Community exempt them from comments and punishments. I finally complained to the AG in the State of Washington who said ... nothing I can do about it. Not my jurisdiction. And you can not reach the AMA to make a comment, since they are the ones telling the institutions to rape Medicare and the American public!


Oh i'm quite aware of all this nonsense. My advice is to find an alternative practitioner who operates outside of the licensing process. I have avoided the established "medical" system all my adult life. They are good for a few things. Emergency care is their specialty but everything else just addressed the symptoms and not the root cause. For those who are "pro-science" they need to ask themselves how that science was performed. Did it adhere to the scientific process or did it simply make assumptions, fudge data and cherry pick results for the sake of rushing something out to market. More often than not it's the latter and almost always the cases in the world of Western medicine. Greed really is the root of all Earthly ills.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 04 2023 at 03:35
For those who (prefer to) believe in "alternative facts": there is still some hope for you...

Getting back to the OP's topic: Republicans continue to inflict chaos on themselves and on the US of A. Are there still Republicans left who work for the well-being of their country?

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 04 2023 at 08:02

Appeals Court Finds Biden Administration Violated The First Amendment When It Pushed For Social Media Censorship

https://reclaimthenet.org/appeals-court-finds-biden-administration-violated-the-first-amendment

Of course the Biden administration wants appeal.  Some may be thinking that it's a good idea because they agree on what's censored.  However, what happens when someone else, let's say Trump gets into office and has his own ideas of what should be censored?
mull on that for a while.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 04 2023 at 09:06
Originally posted by suitkees suitkees wrote:

For those who (prefer to) believe in "alternative facts": there is still some hope for you...

Getting back to the OP's topic: Republicans continue to inflict chaos on themselves and on the US of A. Are there still Republicans left who work for the well-being of their country?


Did you know the term "conspiracy theory" was created by the CIA to shut down anyone who questioned their official narrative? I've found most people don't even know what the word "conspiracy" means and apply it to everything including UFOs. It's a term that simply means two or more parties colluding to commit a crime. A true researcher doesn't turn to Qanon or other lame ass counterintelligence to equate real facts with ludicrous nonsense. All one really needs to do to paint a crystal clear picture is follow two things: patents and money trails. Those are unequivocal verifiers of reality. Many things like flat Earth and all that nonsense are simply thrown into the mix so that nobody would believe the real things that have occurred. It is important to distinguish these things before attempting to make blanket statements. The denial of certain conspiracies is exactly why the world is in the mess it is right now.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 04 2023 at 09:11
Originally posted by CosmicVibration CosmicVibration wrote:

Appeals Court Finds Biden Administration Violated The First Amendment When It Pushed For Social Media Censorship

https://reclaimthenet.org/appeals-court-finds-biden-administration-violated-the-first-amendment

Of course the Biden administration wants appeal.  Some may be thinking that it's a good idea because they agree on what's censored.  However, what happens when someone else, let's say Trump gets into office and has his own ideas of what should be censored?
mull on that for a while.


One of 2024's US presidential candidates (as an Independent) Dr Shiva Ayyardurai successfully sued the United States government proving that they were using Twitter and other social media platforms as a way to subvert any whistleblowing operations or any counter movements period. This was made possible by Trump and EVERY sitting member of Congress signing CISA ( Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency ) in 2018 which effectively ended the First Amendment protections of Freedom of Speech for the entire internet. This really was a conspiracy which very few talk about and was done while everyone was distracted doing whatever their distraction of choice was. Fundamentally there is no difference between Trump and Biden. They each serve as a puppet of a larger system and provide their useful idiocy whenever prompted to do so.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 04 2023 at 10:39
Originally posted by CosmicVibration CosmicVibration wrote:

Appeals Court Finds Biden Administration Violated The First Amendment When It Pushed For Social Media Censorship

https://reclaimthenet.org/appeals-court-finds-biden-administration-violated-the-first-amendment
...

Hi,

You're gonna tell me that Trump didn't by trying to down them publicly in all the media?

There is no "public" person out there that is, in essence, making some First Amendment this or that ... and I can assure you that they have discussed it with their lawyers about it, otherwise, Congress and everyone else would be up in arms ... but we like clowns and others that go around saying "you're fired", and we think it's cool.

What First Amendment, then? Specially when you are hurting people's livelihoods, and blowing their life apart ... in the name of power, which is all it is!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 04 2023 at 11:23
Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

Originally posted by suitkees suitkees wrote:

For those who (prefer to) believe in "alternative facts": there is still some hope for you...

Getting back to the OP's topic: Republicans continue to inflict chaos on themselves and on the US of A. Are there still Republicans left who work for the well-being of their country?

Did you know the term "conspiracy theory" was created by the CIA to shut down anyone who questioned their official narrative?

No, I didn't know that, because it is not true (see also There’s a conspiracy theory that the CIA invented the term ‘conspiracy theory’ – here’s why). It seems to be an "alternative fact" that a "true researcher" would not have adopted because he checks and double checks his data (sources).

My theory is that someone uses "alternative facts" in order to push a narrative that serves specific interests and/or beliefs that are going against the - established - facts.

And this...
Quote All one really needs to do to paint a crystal clear picture is follow two things: patents and money trails. Those are unequivocal verifiers of reality. 
...seems to me a very hazardous claim about reality, because what "reality" is seems to have been brought down to only these parameters in order to build up a narrative for which one is going to find "proof". This is what "true researchers" call tunnel-vision. And claiming that they are "unequivocal verifiers of reality" is something a "true researcher" would never claim about something that by nature is not unequivocal.
"Reality" is a much more complex phenomenon and created/constituted by a multiplicity of narratives... is my theory (but not only mine...).

Quote The denial of certain conspiracies is exactly why the world is in the mess it is right now.

Maybe, but the adoption or certain conspiracy theories is definitely contributing to that too.


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 04 2023 at 15:10
Originally posted by suitkees suitkees wrote:

Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

Originally posted by suitkees suitkees wrote:

For those who (prefer to) believe in "alternative facts": there is still some hope for you...

Getting back to the OP's topic: Republicans continue to inflict chaos on themselves and on the US of A. Are there still Republicans left who work for the well-being of their country?

Did you know the term "conspiracy theory" was created by the CIA to shut down anyone who questioned their official narrative?

No, I didn't know that, because it is not true (see also There’s a conspiracy theory that the CIA invented the term ‘conspiracy theory’ – here’s why). It seems to be an "alternative fact" that a "true researcher" would not have adopted because he checks and double checks his data (sources).

My theory is that someone uses "alternative facts" in order to push a narrative that serves specific interests and/or beliefs that are going against the - established - facts.

And this...
Quote All one really needs to do to paint a crystal clear picture is follow two things: patents and money trails. Those are unequivocal verifiers of reality. 
...seems to me a very hazardous claim about reality, because what "reality" is seems to have been brought down to only these parameters in order to build up a narrative for which one is going to find "proof". This is what "true researchers" call tunnel-vision. And claiming that they are "unequivocal verifiers of reality" is something a "true researcher" would never claim about something that by nature is not unequivocal.
"Reality" is a much more complex phenomenon and created/constituted by a multiplicity of narratives... is my theory (but not only mine...).

Quote The denial of certain conspiracies is exactly why the world is in the mess it is right now.

Maybe, but the adoption or certain conspiracy theories is definitely contributing to that too.



So you prefer to believe a website that makes a claim rather than CIA whistleblowers themselves? Both ex-CIA whisteblowers Kevin Schipp as well as Robert David Steele amongst others have disclosed these things to the public and not only that but have explained how they exactly work in great detail with documentation.

The world is run by dark psychologists intel intelligence units that work together like a swarm to steer the public's consciousness in their desired direction.

Whether or not the actually claim is true or not does not matter as much as that you simply dismissed the possibility that has more tangibility than a silly website that has no way of verifying its claims.

Sometimes intel must be gleaned by from whence it came forward and the timeline from which it sprang forth. In this case ALL roads lead to the CIA and although there is no way to prove it with 100% accuracy, neither can one dismiss it as more evidence points in that direction than not.

That's called navigating a field of probabilities. You and the masses simply must engage in learning about systems sciences which is the mechanism by which the few have controlled the many since time immemorial. The entire basis of secret societies and elites that control the masses is due to these principles being guarded in secrecy meanwhile false intel is dispersed in order to confuse the uninitiated.

Once one masters these higher levels of reasoning, it's quite easy to hone one's BS detector.

Even the term "alternative facts" asserts that the counternarrative was based upon facts rather than being a simple theoretical construct itself. Often there are NO FACTS, only assertions, opinions and hypotheses that are presented as FACTS clouded with sophistry for the purpose of corralling human consciousness into the desired pastures of behavior.

It's unlikely anyone will find anything of veracity on the internet theses days due to two REAL FACTS:

In 2012 the USA passed the Smith-Mundt Modernization Act which allows the government to use fake news and propaganda against its own citizens (once reserved only in foreign jurisdiction)

And in 2018 with the passing of CISA, the ending of free speech on the entire internet.

The future for truth seeking if primarily off-line at this point however one can navigate the maze of patents and money trails to find patterns of culpability in many crimes against humanity.




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Hugh Manatee View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 04 2023 at 20:35
The one huge problem I see with politics in general and particularly in the US, is that democracy and capitalism are incompatible. 

Only those with access to huge amounts of money can hope to nominate for higher office, which of course then leads to relying on lobbyists and vested interests for financing.

That's without taking into account the inherent adversarial nature of politics that will not allow one side or the other to make any meaningful advances lest one side gain a popularity that becomes a lasting positive legacy.




Edited by Hugh Manatee - October 04 2023 at 20:37
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Atavachron View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 04 2023 at 20:59
Bullsh*t.  All of it.  Compared to most nations its size, the U.S. does pretty well for its people.   The Angry Young Men are screaming about what they always have, it's the same bitter, undeveloped, paranoid, adolescent rantings we all have expressed when we were stupid... or after we've just had our first beer .

And another thing, if one doesn't grasp how the American government works they should probably shut the hell up.   But they won't, and that's fine.




Edited by Atavachron - October 04 2023 at 21:17
"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy
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