Forum Home Forum Home > Progressive Music Lounges > Prog Music Lounge
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Do foreign vocalists ruin your prog experience?
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Topic ClosedDo foreign vocalists ruin your prog experience?

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 34567 11>
Author
Message
stonebeard View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: May 27 2005
Location: NE Indiana
Status: Offline
Points: 28057
Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 17 2007 at 03:46
^ I knew of the "Romance Language" situation but was unsure of exactly which languages came from Latin.

There is much speak of American ignorance (re: the "Ugly American" term) but what of European ignorance? I wouldn't expect a highly educated person like you, Raf, to be ignorant of past American history (which is EXCEEDINGLY less than that of European history, for obvious reasons) but I don't doubt the typical European teenager does not know some very basic things about American culture. There exists another term, a counterpart for the "Ugly American;" "Euro Trash." Neither are compliments, and we should recognize, in the context of this broad discussion, that all cultures are centered around themselves, and only recently (mainly with the internet, but it's a cumulative thing) non-cultural centeredness the norm. We've been thrust into the world, so to speak, and to not expect a few very minor foul-ups, such as the only I apparently just made and that of the topic creator, are to be expected and not met with scorn, or else your standards are simply too high.
Back to Top
clarke2001 View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: June 14 2006
Location: Croatia
Status: Offline
Points: 4160
Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 17 2007 at 05:01
I like the way thread is developing so far: even the replies touching politics are worth and full of understanding. Well done Raff. I am afraid it's almost imposible to have some in-depth discussion about the topic without getting a bit political.
 
@athamatten: That was one of the best posts I ever had a pleasure to read on forum. Sir (or madam), I salute You and your kind and wise words.Clap
 
My case:
 
I'm a native Croatian speaker (a language or dialect of a South Salvic diasystem often called Serbocroatian) and all the Slavic languages from Macedonian to Polish to Russian) are mutually intelligeble to some extent, in spoken or written (if one is familiar with both Cyrilic and Latin script) form, so we are able to have at least a simple conversation.
 
Lyrics in my native language (including prog) sound natural, watery, neutral and non-melodic (I'm talking about language accent, not music here) and I'm often focusing on lyrics. However, music always come first.
 
Unfortunately, I'm not very familiar with other Slavic prog, but in genral, music (some Polish rock, Old Church Slavonic Orthodox monastery chants, Czech prog folk, and Russian & Russian Roma music) sound charming, authentic, old, worm and fairy-tale-ish. They are making my sorrowful Slavic soul merry.
 
Hungarian and Finnish are beuatiful, unique and melting. Music is tricky and tickley.
 
Languages of Latin origin:
 
since I am a native Croatian of Istrian descent, I'm familiar with Italian too: I dare to say it's also my native, since I knew it from my earliest childhood, but it's far from being fluent. I am able to do a simple conversation, but I understand much more than I am able to speak. Needles to say, I'm able to appreciate Italian prog rock (and Italian music in general), catching the beauty, but without prejudices and typical association that some people might have (only a guess, no offence).
 
Speaking of prejudices, I was not very keen on Spanish language, being convinced that every song in Spanish contains "mi vida" and "corazon" but Los Jaivas helped me to get my head out of my arse and learn to appreciate the music, the value, the beauty (thank you ProgArchives) and willingness to learn more about the cultures of Latin America (again thank you).
 
Portuguse sound very charming to my ears, and I must confess, sexy, and with discovering A Barca Do Sol appeal is even wider (again thanks to PA!), in the meantime I started discovering bossa nova music for the first time in my life (Torquinho, Gilbertos & co.).
 
French is a special story. While I have no problems listening to "Photos Of Ghosts" in English (although I prefer it in italian), I could not imagine a substute for French in Atoll or Ange. Or Jacques Brel. It's just...as it should be. It's just...so French!
 
Romanian: an unique language with slighlty Slavic overtones. The sung language sounds lovely, but in the folk form, it's simply ASTONISHING.
 
Germanic languages:
 
German: I admit, I didn't like this language for the most of my life. It is not so long time ago I disoverd how emotional, poetic and, yes, beautiful it could be. The German songs translated to English sound good, perhaps the best of the translated bunch, I prefer it original, it's more powerful.
 
Scandinavian languages, well, I'm only familar with Anglagard I couldn't imagine it sung in English. It simply won't do justice.
 
Most of my prog is in English. If it's "foreign" sung in English, I prefer it to be German - I love the accent (Grobschnitt, anyone?).
 
I prefer BE to AE. However, I won't feel very comfortable with delta blues sung in British or some Elizabetan music sung in American. I might be a bit narrow minded for that. Disregarding my knowledge of English, I'm never really focused on lyrics.
 
I apologise for not mentioning other language families, but my post is getting to long anyway. In conclusion: you don't need to know how to engine works to drive a car. You don't need to understand the languages to appreciate the beauty. And all the languages ARE the beauty of the cultural heritage of the human kind. If you're missing that, it's your choice, but you're missing an entire world of beauty.
 
Back to Top
Visitor13 View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member

VIP Member

Joined: February 02 2005
Location: Poland
Status: Offline
Points: 4702
Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 17 2007 at 05:13
They don't, but non-native speakers of English singing in English certainly do.

Sing in your own native languages, for feck's sake!
Back to Top
clarke2001 View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: June 14 2006
Location: Croatia
Status: Offline
Points: 4160
Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 17 2007 at 05:25
Originally posted by Visitor13 Visitor13 wrote:

They don't, but non-native speakers of English singing in English certainly do.

Sing in your own native languages, for feck's sake!
 
Not necessarily. In my own band, we don't want to sing in or own language, but we won't sing the entire repertoire in English neither. Each song will be in the different language, which requires lots of collaborations, gathering data, assisting with lyrics and practicing the pronunciation. So far, our lyrics are just gibberish.
Back to Top
Visitor13 View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member

VIP Member

Joined: February 02 2005
Location: Poland
Status: Offline
Points: 4702
Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 17 2007 at 05:29
Originally posted by clarke2001 clarke2001 wrote:

Originally posted by Visitor13 Visitor13 wrote:

They don't, but non-native speakers of English singing in English certainly do. Sing in your own native languages, for feck's sake!

 

Not necessarily. In my own band, we don't want to sing in or own language, but we won't sing the entire repertoire in English neither. Each song will be in the different language, which requires lots of collaborations, gathering data, assisting with lyrics and practicing the pronunciation. So far, our lyrics are just gibberish.


If you can get it right, that's fine with me.

Edited by Visitor13 - December 17 2007 at 05:29
Back to Top
Guests View Drop Down
Forum Guest Group
Forum Guest Group
Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 17 2007 at 06:37
I am Spanish, so the post is not adressed, obviously, to me and thefeore I have nothing to say. But I wish you would have expressed your feelings in another way, because "ruin your prog experience" sounds, really too hard.
I hope I don't ruin your ProgArchives experience with my  imperfect English.
Back to Top
micky View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: October 02 2005
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 46843
Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 17 2007 at 06:41
Originally posted by Josepet Josepet wrote:

I am Spanish, so the post is not adressed, obviously, to me and thefeore I have nothing to say. But I wish you would have expressed your feelings in another way, because "ruin your prog experience" sounds, really too hard.
I hope I don't ruin your ProgArchives experience with my  imperfect English.


pfff...  after 13000 posts ... I hope my imperfect English hasn't ruined the experience for anyone.  LOL
The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
Back to Top
Time Signature View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: July 20 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 362
Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 17 2007 at 07:30
Originally posted by Visitor13 Visitor13 wrote:


Sing in your own native languages, for feck's sake!


I think this quoe is relevant here:

"One likes to believe in the freedom of music, but glittering prizes and endless compromises shatter the illusion of integrity."

Unfortunately.
This user has left the PA fora, but will occasionally post reviews so as to support artists.
Back to Top
micky View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: October 02 2005
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 46843
Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 17 2007 at 07:39
Originally posted by Time Signature Time Signature wrote:

Originally posted by Visitor13 Visitor13 wrote:


Sing in your own native languages, for feck's sake!


I think this quoe is relevant here:

"One likes to believe in the freedom of music, but glittering prizes and endless compromises shatter the illusion of integrity."

Unfortunately.


hahahha... good one Clap


The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
Back to Top
Slartibartfast View Drop Down
Collaborator
Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam

Joined: April 29 2006
Location: Atlantais
Status: Offline
Points: 29630
Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 17 2007 at 07:44
Originally posted by profanatio profanatio wrote:


Hey guys, I've been reading a lot of reviews on this site and a lot of CD's are getting 4 and 5 stars that have female vocalists, german vocals, italian vocals, Spanish vocals etc...

I sincerely wish I could be that accepting and get beyond it but I really seem to need my Prog sung in english. No matter how good the music is, as soon as the non english vocals come in it drops the whole vibe for me. Perhaps I haven't heard the right stuff? How do you guys feel about it? Do you actually seek out foreign vocals or do you just endure it in order to have good music?

Wow, if you wanted to touch some nerves and rattle some cages, success!

I do prefer vocals I can understand, but vocals I can't don't bug me as long as the music is great.  And face it, you can't always understand the English vocals by some singers without the lyrics in writing anyway.

You didn't go around whacking hornet's nests and stepping in fire ant piles as a kid by any chance? LOL


Edited by Slartibartfast - December 17 2007 at 07:45
Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...

Back to Top
Visitor13 View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member

VIP Member

Joined: February 02 2005
Location: Poland
Status: Offline
Points: 4702
Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 17 2007 at 08:02
Originally posted by micky micky wrote:


Originally posted by Time Signature Time Signature wrote:


Originally posted by Visitor13 Visitor13 wrote:

Sing in your own native languages, for feck's sake!
I think this quoe is relevant here:"One likes to believe in the freedom of music, but glittering prizes and endless compromises shatter the illusion of integrity."Unfortunately.


hahahha... good one Clap




Sure, though it's not like a prog band can usually get much in the way of 'glittering prizes', whether they sing in English or not.

Back to Top
micky View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: October 02 2005
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 46843
Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 17 2007 at 08:11
Originally posted by Visitor13 Visitor13 wrote:

Originally posted by micky micky wrote:


Originally posted by Time Signature Time Signature wrote:


Originally posted by Visitor13 Visitor13 wrote:

Sing in your own native languages, for feck's sake!
I think this quoe is relevant here:"One likes to believe in the freedom of music, but glittering prizes and endless compromises shatter the illusion of integrity."Unfortunately.


hahahha... good one Clap




Sure, though it's not like a prog band can usually get much in the way of 'glittering prizes', whether they sing in English or not.



well some did  end up on MTV LOL
The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
Back to Top
Visitor13 View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member

VIP Member

Joined: February 02 2005
Location: Poland
Status: Offline
Points: 4702
Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 17 2007 at 08:13
Originally posted by micky micky wrote:


Originally posted by Visitor13 Visitor13 wrote:

Originally posted by micky micky wrote:


Originally posted by Time Signature Time Signature wrote:


Originally posted by Visitor13 Visitor13 wrote:

Sing in your own native languages, for feck's
sake!
I think this quoe is relevant here:"One likes to believe
in the freedom of music, but glittering prizes and endless compromises
shatter the illusion of integrity."Unfortunately.


hahahha... good one Clap




Sure, though it's not like a prog band can usually get much in the
way of 'glittering prizes', whether they sing in English or not.



well some did  end up on MTV LOL


Yeah, like Sigur Ros...
Back to Top
micky View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: October 02 2005
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 46843
Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 17 2007 at 08:16
whoa.... you mean MTV still plays videos....  everytime I blow my it with the remote...  it's usually  a bunch of 20 something year old twits  bitching about this or that....   or some guy showing off his 'crib' LOL
The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
Back to Top
Visitor13 View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member

VIP Member

Joined: February 02 2005
Location: Poland
Status: Offline
Points: 4702
Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 17 2007 at 08:19
Originally posted by micky micky wrote:

whoa.... you mean MTV still plays videos....  everytime I blow my
it with the remote...  it's usually  a bunch of 20 something
year old twits  bitching about this or that....   or some guy
showing off his 'crib' LOL


I'm pretty certain Sigur Ros got some airplay on MTV back when they had their breakthrough in, what, 2000? Or was it on Viva... anyway, same kind of thing, only German.
Back to Top
micky View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: October 02 2005
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 46843
Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 17 2007 at 08:33
I still need to listen to something by them...  Angry
The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
Back to Top
Visitor13 View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member

VIP Member

Joined: February 02 2005
Location: Poland
Status: Offline
Points: 4702
Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 17 2007 at 08:38
Here you go:

http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=1566

And BTW, as a Kobaian expat in Poland I demand that Vander and co. stop sullying my language with their dreadful pronunciation and piss-poor vocabulary, and sing their stuff in French.
Back to Top
Raff View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: July 29 2005
Location: None
Status: Offline
Points: 24439
Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 17 2007 at 08:40
What I have heard of Sigur Ros left me somewhat cold, though of course I will have to do some more listening - nevertheless, they sing in one of the oldest languages in Europe. Icelandic is practically identical to Old Norse, the language of the Eddas and the sagas... very prog indeed!
Back to Top
micky View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: October 02 2005
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 46843
Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 17 2007 at 08:40
Originally posted by Visitor13 Visitor13 wrote:

Here you go:

http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=1566

And BTW, as a Kobaian expat in Poland I demand that Vander and co. stop sullying my language with their dreadful pronunciation and piss-poor vocabulary, and sing their stuff in French.


no... badly accented English please LOL

checking it those samples.. have alwys meant to... but then end up heading down some other path between here and there hahahha
The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
Back to Top
Visitor13 View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member

VIP Member

Joined: February 02 2005
Location: Poland
Status: Offline
Points: 4702
Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 17 2007 at 08:42
Originally posted by Ghost Rider Ghost Rider wrote:

What I have heard of Sigur Ros left me somewhat cold, though of course I will have to do some more listening - nevertheless, they sing in one of the oldest languages in Europe. Icelandic is practically identical to Old Norse, the language of the Eddas and the sagas... very prog indeed!


Yep, the monastery-burning language of prog, carnage, pillage and rape
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 34567 11>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down



This page was generated in 0.117 seconds.
Donate monthly and keep PA fast-loading and ad-free forever.