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stonebeard ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: May 27 2005 Location: NE Indiana Status: Offline Points: 28057 |
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^ I knew of the "Romance Language" situation but was unsure of exactly which languages came from Latin.
There is much speak of American ignorance (re: the "Ugly American" term) but what of European ignorance? I wouldn't expect a highly educated person like you, Raf, to be ignorant of past American history (which is EXCEEDINGLY less than that of European history, for obvious reasons) but I don't doubt the typical European teenager does not know some very basic things about American culture. There exists another term, a counterpart for the "Ugly American;" "Euro Trash." Neither are compliments, and we should recognize, in the context of this broad discussion, that all cultures are centered around themselves, and only recently (mainly with the internet, but it's a cumulative thing) non-cultural centeredness the norm. We've been thrust into the world, so to speak, and to not expect a few very minor foul-ups, such as the only I apparently just made and that of the topic creator, are to be expected and not met with scorn, or else your standards are simply too high. |
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clarke2001 ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator Joined: June 14 2006 Location: Croatia Status: Offline Points: 4160 |
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I like the way thread is developing so far: even the replies touching politics are worth and full of understanding. Well done Raff. I am afraid it's almost imposible to have some in-depth discussion about the topic without getting a bit political.
@athamatten: That was one of the best posts I ever had a pleasure to read on forum. Sir (or madam), I salute You and your kind and wise words.
![]() My case:
I'm a native Croatian speaker (a language or dialect of a South Salvic diasystem often called Serbocroatian) and all the Slavic languages from Macedonian to Polish to Russian) are mutually intelligeble to some extent, in spoken or written (if one is familiar with both Cyrilic and Latin script) form, so we are able to have at least a simple conversation.
Lyrics in my native language (including prog) sound natural, watery, neutral and non-melodic (I'm talking about language accent, not music here) and I'm often focusing on lyrics. However, music always come first.
Unfortunately, I'm not very familiar with other Slavic prog, but in genral, music (some Polish rock, Old Church Slavonic Orthodox monastery chants, Czech prog folk, and Russian & Russian Roma music) sound charming, authentic, old, worm and fairy-tale-ish. They are making my sorrowful Slavic soul merry.
Hungarian and Finnish are beuatiful, unique and melting. Music is tricky and tickley.
Languages of Latin origin:
since I am a native Croatian of Istrian descent, I'm familiar with Italian too: I dare to say it's also my native, since I knew it from my earliest childhood, but it's far from being fluent. I am able to do a simple conversation, but I understand much more than I am able to speak. Needles to say, I'm able to appreciate Italian prog rock (and Italian music in general), catching the beauty, but without prejudices and typical association that some people might have (only a guess, no offence).
Speaking of prejudices, I was not very keen on Spanish language, being convinced that every song in Spanish contains "mi vida" and "corazon" but Los Jaivas helped me to get my head out of my arse and learn to appreciate the music, the value, the beauty (thank you ProgArchives) and willingness to learn more about the cultures of Latin America (again thank you).
Portuguse sound very charming to my ears, and I must confess, sexy, and with discovering A Barca Do Sol appeal is even wider (again thanks to PA!), in the meantime I started discovering bossa nova music for the first time in my life (Torquinho, Gilbertos & co.).
French is a special story. While I have no problems listening to "Photos Of Ghosts" in English (although I prefer it in italian), I could not imagine a substute for French in Atoll or Ange. Or Jacques Brel. It's just...as it should be. It's just...so French!
Romanian: an unique language with slighlty Slavic overtones. The sung language sounds lovely, but in the folk form, it's simply ASTONISHING.
Germanic languages:
German: I admit, I didn't like this language for the most of my life. It is not so long time ago I disoverd how emotional, poetic and, yes, beautiful it could be. The German songs translated to English sound good, perhaps the best of the translated bunch, I prefer it original, it's more powerful.
Scandinavian languages, well, I'm only familar with Anglagard I couldn't imagine it sung in English. It simply won't do justice.
Most of my prog is in English. If it's "foreign" sung in English, I prefer it to be German - I love the accent (Grobschnitt, anyone?).
I prefer BE to AE. However, I won't feel very comfortable with delta blues sung in British or some Elizabetan music sung in American. I might be a bit narrow minded for that. Disregarding my knowledge of English, I'm never really focused on lyrics.
I apologise for not mentioning other language families, but my post is getting to long anyway. In conclusion: you don't need to know how to engine works to drive a car. You don't need to understand the languages to appreciate the beauty. And all the languages ARE the beauty of the cultural heritage of the human kind. If you're missing that, it's your choice, but you're missing an entire world of beauty.
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Visitor13 ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() VIP Member Joined: February 02 2005 Location: Poland Status: Offline Points: 4702 |
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They don't, but non-native speakers of English singing in English certainly do.
Sing in your own native languages, for feck's sake! |
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clarke2001 ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator Joined: June 14 2006 Location: Croatia Status: Offline Points: 4160 |
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Not necessarily. In my own band
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Visitor13 ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() VIP Member Joined: February 02 2005 Location: Poland Status: Offline Points: 4702 |
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If you can get it right, that's fine with me. Edited by Visitor13 - December 17 2007 at 05:29 |
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I am Spanish, so the post is not adressed, obviously, to me and thefeore I have nothing to say. But I wish you would have expressed your feelings in another way, because "ruin your prog experience" sounds, really too hard.
I hope I don't ruin your ProgArchives experience with my imperfect English.
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micky ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 02 2005 Location: . Status: Offline Points: 46843 |
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pfff... after 13000 posts ... I hope my imperfect English hasn't ruined the experience for anyone. ![]() |
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Time Signature ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: July 20 2007 Status: Offline Points: 362 |
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I think this quoe is relevant here: "One likes to believe in the freedom of music, but glittering prizes and endless compromises shatter the illusion of integrity." Unfortunately. |
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This user has left the PA fora, but will occasionally post reviews so as to support artists.
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micky ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 02 2005 Location: . Status: Offline Points: 46843 |
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hahahha... good one ![]() |
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Slartibartfast ![]() Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam Joined: April 29 2006 Location: Atlantais Status: Offline Points: 29630 |
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Wow, if you wanted to touch some nerves and rattle some cages, success! I do prefer vocals I can understand, but vocals I can't don't bug me as long as the music is great. And face it, you can't always understand the English vocals by some singers without the lyrics in writing anyway. You didn't go around whacking hornet's nests and stepping in fire ant piles as a kid by any chance? ![]() Edited by Slartibartfast - December 17 2007 at 07:45 |
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Visitor13 ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() VIP Member Joined: February 02 2005 Location: Poland Status: Offline Points: 4702 |
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Sure, though it's not like a prog band can usually get much in the way of 'glittering prizes', whether they sing in English or not. |
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micky ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 02 2005 Location: . Status: Offline Points: 46843 |
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well some did end up on MTV ![]() |
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Visitor13 ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() VIP Member Joined: February 02 2005 Location: Poland Status: Offline Points: 4702 |
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Yeah, like Sigur Ros... |
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micky ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 02 2005 Location: . Status: Offline Points: 46843 |
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whoa.... you mean MTV still plays videos.... everytime I blow my
it with the remote... it's usually a bunch of 20 something
year old twits bitching about this or that.... or some guy
showing off his 'crib'
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Visitor13 ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() VIP Member Joined: February 02 2005 Location: Poland Status: Offline Points: 4702 |
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I'm pretty certain Sigur Ros got some airplay on MTV back when they had their breakthrough in, what, 2000? Or was it on Viva... anyway, same kind of thing, only German. |
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micky ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 02 2005 Location: . Status: Offline Points: 46843 |
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I still need to listen to something by them...
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Visitor13 ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() VIP Member Joined: February 02 2005 Location: Poland Status: Offline Points: 4702 |
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Here you go:
http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=1566 And BTW, as a Kobaian expat in Poland I demand that Vander and co. stop sullying my language with their dreadful pronunciation and piss-poor vocabulary, and sing their stuff in French. |
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Raff ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator Joined: July 29 2005 Location: None Status: Offline Points: 24439 |
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What I have heard of Sigur Ros left me somewhat cold, though of course I will have to do some more listening - nevertheless, they sing in one of the oldest languages in Europe. Icelandic is practically identical to Old Norse, the language of the Eddas and the sagas... very prog indeed!
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micky ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 02 2005 Location: . Status: Offline Points: 46843 |
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no... badly accented English please ![]() checking it those samples.. have alwys meant to... but then end up heading down some other path between here and there hahahha |
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Visitor13 ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() VIP Member Joined: February 02 2005 Location: Poland Status: Offline Points: 4702 |
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Yep, the monastery-burning language of prog, carnage, pillage and rape ![]() |
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