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Slartibartfast 
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam
Joined: April 29 2006
Location: Atlantais
Status: Offline
Points: 29625
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 Posted: August 12 2009 at 13:23 |
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Toaster Mantis
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 12 2008
Location: Denmark
Status: Offline
Points: 5898
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Posted: August 12 2009 at 13:51 |
That's why with my post I went for something different.  (now reply to it you dolts!)
Edited by Toaster Mantis - August 12 2009 at 13:51
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"The past is not some static being, it is not a previous present, nor a present that has passed away; the past has its own dynamic being which is constantly renewed and renewing." - Claire Colebrook
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SMSM
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 15 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 210
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Posted: August 12 2009 at 17:28 |
As a member of Gentle Giant once stated that some Jazz was boring because you could have a 15 minute improvised piece, where only 3 minutes of music would sound good, the rest was irrelavent
Certain passages of progressive rock material have such "boring" improvisation, jamming or noodling
Some Flower Kings live cds contain this.
Y. Malmsteen guitar solos are often out of place in his music.
Or how about 10 minute guitar solos or drum solos in a middle of a song.
- I believe this is applicable to all types of music, but because progressive rock contains so many quality musicians, some take advantage to show off their chops in not the best way.
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Tsevir Leirbag
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 03 2009
Location: Montréal
Status: Offline
Points: 8321
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Posted: August 12 2009 at 18:31 |
 American Khatru wrote:
Prog isn't boring, there are just people who are boring. |
 That's not far from th truth, I guess!
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Les mains, les pieds balancés
Sur tant de mers, tant de planchers,
Un marin mort,
Il dormira
- Paul Éluard
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Finnforest
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: February 03 2007
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 16913
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Posted: August 12 2009 at 18:37 |
A Person wrote:
If there is one thing Jacula isn't, it's church music, IMO. Have you guys seen/heard anything from Antonius Rex? It doesn't exactly evoke images of anything religious.
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I've got most of the Rex albums and enjoy most of them very much. I prefer Jacula over Rex, but the first Rex is similar to Jacula. The recent Rex comebacks are good but much slicker sounding. The whole occult thing is overblown if you ask me. Obviously they're into it. Whether they're serious or just showmen, don't know, don't care. Just love the music. I do know Mr Bartoccetti went to Catholic University. 
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Xanthous
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 16 2009
Location: Dayton, Ohio
Status: Offline
Points: 207
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Posted: August 12 2009 at 19:11 |
Well I think that It's just how you're exposed to Prog. If you listen to some of the Proggier (Did I just say that?) stuff first you'll find it to be boring. You've got to let an unexposed mind slowly get into it. If you start off slowly with more prog-related music and drift there you'll be able to enjoy it better but if exposed full-out their may be mixed results. If someone doesn't like the first sample of what some call Prog,they'll find reasons to dislike it as a whole, without giving it a chance.
Sorry if the post is all over the place, I can't seem to keep my thoughts relevant to the matters at hand.
Edited by Xanthous - August 12 2009 at 19:12
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el dingo
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 08 2008
Location: Norwich UK
Status: Offline
Points: 7053
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Posted: August 13 2009 at 03:28 |
Toaster Mantis wrote:
That's why with my post I went for something different.
(now reply to it you dolts!)
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I'd love to but it's 9am here and my brain doesn't wake up till 12 
Edit: Re-read the post and noticed the bit about Seven by Seven - over here that was the B-side of the Silver Machine single. Re theosophy: wasn't it a theosophist who got Conan Doyle to believe in fairies?
Edited by el dingo - August 13 2009 at 03:32
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It's not that I can't find worth in anything, it's just that I can't find worth in enough.
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Toaster Mantis
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 12 2008
Location: Denmark
Status: Offline
Points: 5898
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Posted: August 13 2009 at 04:20 |
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Doesn't sound unlikely. Theosophy was pretty popular back in the late 19th century, as a matter of fact Frank Baum was a Theosophist and there are lots of references to it in The Wizard of Oz.
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"The past is not some static being, it is not a previous present, nor a present that has passed away; the past has its own dynamic being which is constantly renewed and renewing." - Claire Colebrook
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Johnnytuba
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 02 2009
Location: New York
Status: Offline
Points: 377
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Posted: August 13 2009 at 09:58 |
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My guitar player in my band always busts my chops about Van Der Graaf Generator. He is heavily into the Seatlle movement, which I am too, but I prefer prog way much more. This year at my 30th birthday, he was making fun of the music I like so band, I wanted to punch him. The thing that bothers me is that this guy is so into music that he won't take a good listen to the music that I enjoy and that inspires me. Everytime I even want to play a Rush cover in my band I get laughed at. I think I am going to start playing music with more like-minded people.
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"The things that we're concealing, will never let us grow.
Time will do its healing, you've got to let it go.
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J-Man
Prog Reviewer
Joined: August 07 2008
Location: Philadelphia,PA
Status: Offline
Points: 7826
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Posted: August 13 2009 at 09:59 |
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People usually find it boring because most people can't sit and listen to one song for 30 minutes. The music is the least boring I've ever heard with all the contrasts, and stuff like that. People just get bored because of the length, not because of the music.
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Slartibartfast
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam
Joined: April 29 2006
Location: Atlantais
Status: Offline
Points: 29625
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Posted: August 13 2009 at 10:04 |
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
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infandous
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 23 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 2447
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Posted: August 13 2009 at 14:16 |
You know, this thread reminded me of when I played some Flower Kings for an old girlfriend years ago (she liked whatever was most popular and played most on modern radio). She said it was "too depressing". Uh.....what? The Flower Kings? Depressing?? Now, I realize that many on this board are not fond of the Flower Kings, but I don't imagine anyone would characterize their music as depressing (for those familiar with the band, I played her a few tunes from Retropolis, but no instrumentals). She also didn't like June, by Spock's Beard. I don't like it either, but I figured since I thought it was cheesy, repetitive, and downright annoying, she would love it  But, of course, it wasn't "popular", so she couldn't possibly enjoy it. Anyway, I completely understand why people might not enjoy prog, and why they might find it boring (Micky makes some points I would have made). But who really cares? Only us proggers, judging by the persistence of these types of threads. (and like Slarttibartfast, I post in all of them )
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DRACCA
Forum Groupie
Joined: August 06 2009
Location: Salem,N.J.
Status: Offline
Points: 48
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Posted: August 13 2009 at 15:11 |
floydispink wrote:
People born in the late eighties and (early) nineties grow up with music like R 'n B and dance. As that music is (in most cases) mainstream music, the majority of those people listens to it.
People that were teenagers in the mid to late 70's were into garbage too. I know this because I played to auidences for 30 years. This is not to be taken as an insult. I am just being honest. One of my frustrations when teaching guitar is the fact that many people(all ages) are under the impression that the late 60's consists of 5 or 6 people. The artists who of course are promoted 24/7 on the airwaves. For example: In the 60's The Allman Brothers and the Doors were opening for acts like Mike Bloomfield. There is no justice. Many people haven't a clue due to the fact that most of what really happened is covered up in today's documentaries on the 60's.
My question here is: what makes people find progressive music a boring form of music? |
There is a thin line between those who enjoy pop and commercial rock and those who are trend mongers. As Zappa would say:TREND MONGERS. It's difficult to make a clear analogy at times. In 1983 a band I was travelling with a band that played a Weather Report piece in front of a pop crowd. They gave us a standing ovation. But the club owner screamed at us for doing it and threatened to black ball us from the business. Zappa told a story of this one hippie who use to bring coffee and donuts to the executives at Warner Brothers. After asking the hippie his advice on how to rake in more money, he came up with a concept of making songs shorter and leaving out solos which is basically what happened and you know the rest. I remember kids in school bringing ELP albums in class. The type of kids who were into southern rock and hard rock. Things were a little more open then. I remember when ELP headlined California Jam. I think if you listen to Zappa's words you will have a better understanding as to why there are so many trend mongers today.
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verslibre
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 01 2004
Location: CA
Status: Offline
Points: 15226
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Posted: August 14 2009 at 03:44 |
American Khatru wrote:
Prog isn't boring, there are just people who are boring. |
In total agreement with the statement above. As I like to say, "boring people get bored."
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ExittheLemming
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 19 2007
Location: Penal Colony
Status: Offline
Points: 11415
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Posted: August 14 2009 at 07:28 |
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Interesting topic certainly with some genuinely thought provoking responses. It is however rather easy to fall victim to PA's own self fulfilling prophecy hereabouts i.e. the implication transparent in most responses to date that the masses are but goldfish/budgerigars without the capability to appreciate HIGH ART (Man)
I certainly have never considered prog in any of its manifestations as high art but would hazard that there surely now exists a generation of consumers who perceive ALL music as a commodity/brand or as a soundtrack of their own choosing to a (SHARED) activity of their own choice. When I listened to prog it was a strictly non contact sport, played out in a darkened bedroom squinting at the esoterica afforded by the vinyl sleeves artwork. Perhaps pop music is COMMUNAL and prog just ain't ?
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DRACCA
Forum Groupie
Joined: August 06 2009
Location: Salem,N.J.
Status: Offline
Points: 48
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Posted: August 14 2009 at 08:08 |
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I am sorry floydispink. I totally messed up your quote. I shouldn't be on here without sleep. verslibre thank you for that supportive and unique opinion. I have to chicken out on this one. When you are in line at a concert and you have a progger in front of you and an Air Supply fan behind you and they are having a conversation about the weather, you may hope that the topic doesn't change to music. It's a real mousetrap and it's uncomfortable to be in the middle. It can be a social challenge for a prog head. Especially when you have aged quite a bit and you have now surpassed that emotionally charged desire to defend your music. However, this is an interesting thread by floydispink because it represents the detailed aspects socially of how proggers are rejected by fans of pop music. People that cringe with embarrassment when they hear Univers Zero playing in the background yet they are easily taken in by Bach. Which is fine because their child is performing a Bach piece and they must be supportive. Their child may say: Hey mom! listen to this theme song for my new movie. The child is watching a cute sci-fi film on dvd. The piece is right out of the Berlin school of electronic style and errie sounding. The mom is supportive of the child and the music that he is thrilled over. Dad then puts on Tangerine Dream (at low volume), and mom says: please take this off it's going to scare the kids. ????????
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A Person
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 10 2008
Location: __
Status: Offline
Points: 65760
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Posted: August 14 2009 at 11:09 |
DRACCA wrote:
I am sorry floydispink. I totally messed up your quote. I shouldn't be on here without sleep. verslibre thank you for that supportive and unique opinion. I have to chicken out on this one. When you are in line at a concert and you have a progger in front of you and an Air Supply fan behind you and they are having a conversation about the weather, you may hope that the topic doesn't change to music. It's a real mousetrap and it's uncomfortable to be in the middle. It can be a social challenge for a prog head. Especially when you have aged quite a bit and you have now surpassed that emotionally charged desire to defend your music. However, this is an interesting thread by floydispink because it represents the detailed aspects socially of how proggers are rejected by fans of pop music. People that cringe with embarrassment when they hear Univers Zero playing in the background yet they are easily taken in by Bach. Which is fine because their child is performing a Bach piece and they must be supportive. Their child may say: Hey mom! listen to this theme song for my new movie. The child is watching a cute sci-fi film on dvd. The piece is right out of the Berlin school of electronic style and errie sounding. The mom is supportive of the child and the music that he is thrilled over. Dad then puts on Tangerine Dream (at low volume), and mom says: please take this off it's going to scare the kids. ???????? |
I once played "Several Species..." and my little brother said it was scary, when he was even younger he used to be scared of "Another Brick in the Wall, pt. 2". I guess the only way to get people to appreciate prog is to find something in x-over or prog related and eventually get them used to it. I think some people are scared away from it because of how different it is.
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kingcrimson2003
Forum Newbie
Joined: June 19 2009
Location: Plymouth, Devon
Status: Offline
Points: 9
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Posted: August 14 2009 at 15:35 |
I find hard to understand people who listen to music which is made by a 'geezer farting around with a sampling desk with a tart yodeling over the top' (to quote John Payne formally of Asia), boring.
I often force some prog on my house mates with mixed response although I'm not sure they enjoyed the Isis I just played! They just asked for another though (can you believe?!), so I'm playing The Knife by Genesis.
Oh, one of them has just left the room!
Ah, he's come back!
Edited by kingcrimson2003 - August 14 2009 at 15:36
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In the centre of the Sun is a Cadbury's Creme Egg and inside of that is a Ferrari FXX
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Negoba
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 24 2008
Location: Big Muddy
Status: Offline
Points: 5208
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Posted: August 14 2009 at 15:41 |
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It's an inherent genetic flaw in their makeup. Don't fret too much over it and enjoy your priveleged status among the elite.
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You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all.
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DangerousCurves
Forum Groupie
Joined: July 07 2009
Location: Plymouth, Devon
Status: Offline
Points: 43
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Posted: August 14 2009 at 15:43 |
They liked it people!
(I accidently logged in as my old user name in the previous post by the way  ) |
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What makes people find Prog boring?
