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Finnforest View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 11 2016 at 20:29
Sorry I don't know of such a book, my friend. 

I haven't had a ton of relationships with the oppo sex, but the few I have had....I just followed my gut, let it develop slowly.  The two most important relationships I had both started with co-workers and turned into friendships, then into great friendships, then romantic.  Honestly the friendship part has always been far more important to me, FAR more, than any physical aspect.  Laughter, friendship, someone you know has your back, someone to share quiet time with...that is all I need or want.  It just develops when you have met the right person, try not to overthink it. 

That's probably terribly cliched and simplistic but it was my experience.  I was lucky to meet some great people in my old jobs back then, both girl and guy friends.  And I'm a big time introvert.  So take your time and follow your instincts, try to relax....I know it is hard.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 11 2016 at 21:51
^ So I stay in my good ol' ascetic mode. Alright, then. Duly noted. Pedal to the metal when looking to interact socially. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 12 2016 at 02:34
Anyway, thank you for your replies, gents. 

Edited by Dayvenkirq - August 12 2016 at 02:35
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 12 2016 at 03:29
Relationships are a labour of love, demanding, and a real PITA (says he who has only been in 2).
f**k-buddies for sure
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 12 2016 at 21:18
Originally posted by Tom Ozric Tom Ozric wrote:

f**k-buddies for sure
For now I'll try to refrain from those ... 'cause that's the way I'm wired. 

The best (seemingly so) source for finding advice on how to initiate/handle relationships is the Psychology Today website, but they don't seem to have all the reasonable answers. I think the root of all my problems is in the social domain: the fact that I don't have any friends and don't know how to talk to people. 

I don't know where to start is all I'm saying. 

 


Edited by Dayvenkirq - August 12 2016 at 21:20
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 13 2016 at 03:17
Methinks that this crowd isn't the ideal one to ask for advice at the best of times...Wink

I know of no self-help books because I've never used them, but the clue is in the phrase "self-help", they won't answer your questions and concerns as there are no definitive general answers to any of them, all they can do is guide you to helping your self. So that said, here's some free guidance:

 - how to deal with intrusive thoughts and obsession; 
With confidence. Develop a self-assured image of yourself that is stronger than these urges so you can start to control them instead of allowing them to control you (if that is the case). If you are asking "how to deal with" then you probably have a poor view of yourself for having them - no one can read your mind so the only person these thoughts affect is you. As David said, accept that you will always have them (and stop obsessing about them). Then you can pull them apart to see what makes them tick and understand for yourself why you have them (psychiatrists make a fortune out of getting you to solve your own problems - they never supply answers, they only ask questions).
 - how to understand the true value/purpose of being in a relationship; 
By having confidence in the relationship you will come to value the relationship and with that discover the value of it. Relationships are mutual respect and that is their value - they make us better individuals. How often you you hear "He/She is my rock" or other such sayings - as trite as they sound, they're truisms - our partners see things in us we cannot see for ourselves - our self-doubt means nothing to them, the simple notion that they want to be with us reveals how much confidence they have in us - and by that virtue our confidence in them drives away their self-doubt. If you doubt your partner then they will start doubting you. The same is true of friendships and all other non-romantic partnerships such as being in a band or on a team - relationships grow by discovery and acknowledgement of each others "abilities" and then using them in a mutually beneficial way. 
 - whether it is OK to be single for the rest of your life (so that people wouldn't think less of you, calling you "that one creepy old guy"); 
To hell with what other people think. If being single is what you want to be then do it. However if it's just because you fear that you'll always be single then push this thought to the back if the queue. You don't need defeatist thinking at this point in proceedings. 
 - whether being in a relationship is right for me; 
This is like asking whether you're going to like Dr Pepper or not - how can you tell if you never try it?
 - how to find the right match; 
By staying in your comfort zone and by being yourself. For example: If you hate going to bars then you're out of your comfort zone - anyone you find there who is comfortable in that environment is not going to be "the right match" for you - in those situations look for who else isn't comfortable and gravitate towards them because they are likely to be a kindred spirit. Between the two of you you can create your own little haven in an alien landscape... but before you do that, put yourself in their shoes and imagine how you would feel if someone invaded your space. The less intrusive you are the more comfortable they'll feel - be yourself and let them see that you are sympathetic to their plight so offer no threat and their confidence will grow as yours does. Remember that the person you are approaching is as nervous and unsure as you are regardless of how confident they seem on the surface - so if they do reject you then they are being defensive - they too are avoiding being hurt (so respect that and walk away).
 - how to muster up the courage to talk to people of opposite sex (or same sex if you are not straight); 
By avoiding the people who scare the crap out of you. If you have to muster courage to make that first move then you're going to get hurt every time. You don't need courage, you need confidence in yourself. One thing to remember is be natural before you say anything - first impressions are formed long before the first word is uttered so start with a friendly non-threatening smile.
 - whether it is OK to share intrusive thoughts with your partner. 
If you have to ask then the answer is probably no. Somethings are not for sharing.

You'll notice that every piece of free advice I've doled out here says the same thing: Confidence, or more specifically - self-confidence. 

Most of us are shy introverts (this is a Progressive Rock forum after all), and that includes me - no matter how confident and self-assured I seem in print, or even when meeting me IRL, I'm actually painfully shy and reserved. I hate meeting people for the first time and avoid it whenever possible - my self-confidence grows as I get to know the person I'm talking with because the lack of self-confidence is really the fear of rejection. The more confident I am that I'm not going to be rejected the less introvert and more animate I become. It's a perfectly natural defence mechanism we use to avoid being hurt. I suspect (but obviously don't actually know) that extroverts also fear rejections which is why they try so goddamn hard to be liked - introverts cannot do that, we don't project self-confidence, we cannot manipulate others to like us, or force them to see our good traits, we just have to hope that we will be liked in spite of our faults and failings.

At this stage you're probably asking yourself can a shy, fat old guy whose been in a monogamous relationship for almost 40 years seriously offer me advice on dating? *shrug* - in my youth I was pretty good at it and even now (as my wife observed yesterday) I get admiring glances without even trying - and I guess that's because I'm not trying. [Long ago a girl once said to me "you could turn heads if you put your mind to it" but the truth is, I've never put my mind to it because I just wouldn't be into anyone who would be attracted to that false image of me if I did.]

Now I'm going to say something that sounds counter intuitive - introverts are just as good at finding partners as extroverts, we're just a little slower at it because we are the tortoise to their hare in this race. We are pretty good at observing and noticing things because we take time to make ourselves feel comfortable in any situation, we're always looking out for the potential threats - we see the people to avoid long before they see us - and that can work to our advantage because without realising it we also see those who are non-threatening but tend to filter them out. 




Edited by Dean - August 13 2016 at 05:52
What?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 13 2016 at 04:37
Wow,Shocked a sex thread open for seven years that I haven't posted inConfusedPinch (yes, I checkedLOL)

Waddya mean, this isn't a sex thread?? ConfusedAngry


Originally posted by Tom Ozric Tom Ozric wrote:

Relationships are a labour of love, demanding, and a real PITA (says he who has only been in 2).
f**k-buddies for sure


I'm not gay, so I'm looking for f**k-buddiettesTongue


Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Methinks that this crowd isn't the ideal one to ask for advice at the best of times...Wink


oh, noooooo!!!!... You mean that I've made my whole education and based my life on a virgin geeky-nerdy proghead site, then?? ShockedAngryClown






Edited by Sean Trane - August 13 2016 at 04:38
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 13 2016 at 05:38
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Methinks that this crowd isn't the ideal one to ask for advice at the best of times...Wink



Clap amen to that... great crowd here for asking which prog album is more repelling to the opposite sex..... but this ..ummm LOL

 - how to deal with intrusive thoughts and obsession; 
Personally I have a long history of dealing with this myself. Some aspects innate through who we are (ADHD) some gained through life experiences (PTSD). Of course there is no single blanket answer. We all deal with these things in our own way. My simplest advice.  If you really feel you need help, don't go to f**king prog rock website, go see a professional.  I did, and it can help. Otherwise... revel in your eccentricities and oddities.. 
 - how to understand the true value/purpose of being in a relationship; 
a very personal notion only you can understand and thus recognize once you have found it in a partner. What do YOU seek from a relationship. A mother-figure to take care of you, an on-demand sex toy, a life partner to share the difficulties and joys of life with.  That is up to you man.. only you know.
 - whether it is OK to be single for the rest of your life (so that people wouldn't think less of you, calling you "that one creepy old guy"); 
To hell with what other people think. If being single is what you want to be then do it. However if it's just because you fear that you'll always be single then push this thought to the back if the queue. You don't need defeatist thinking at this point in proceedings. Dean hit the nail on this one. Nothing to add
 - whether being in a relationship is right for me; 
This is like asking whether you're going to like Dr Pepper or not - how can you tell if you never try it?
ditto though I may add.. there is no failure in failure. Unless you marry a Satanic soul sucking  Red-head LOL
 - how to find the right match; 
in my experience.. you don't find the right match.. it finds you. Don't worry about that sh*t man.. when it happens.. it happens. I found my soul-mate and perfect match in the most inhospitable of places and at a time I was considering putting a gun to my head.. I sure as f**k was not looking for the right match when she came into my life. It just comes to you.. the trick is always be receptive. Never lose hope. The right match is out there.. just don't miss it for drowning in self-pity or lost hope.
 - how to muster up the courage to talk to people of opposite sex (or same sex if you are not straight); 
BOOZE!!!!!!!!!!!!!! LOL If you have to ask that question...then I am serious. No pithy answer will make those of us have have substantial self confidence/esteem issues go away... just drink them away and be the fabulously interesting, incredibly bulletproof and confident man we have always wanted ourselves to be.
 - whether it is OK to share intrusive thoughts with your partner. 
ahhhh... no.  The deepest recesses of our minds are for ourselves and ourselves alone.

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

even now (as my wife observed yesterday) I get admiring glances without even trying


LOL I'm not surprised... first time I saw a picture of you on the forum I told myself.... DAMNIT man.. I hope I look that good when I get f**king old...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 13 2016 at 08:59
Honestly though, love is unfair and cruel. Enough said.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 13 2016 at 09:34
Dean and others have talked about comfort zones and self confidence. From my perspective, I have spoken in front of thousands of delegates at union conferences. I am at the moment teaching corporate tax evasion to trainee members of my department at work. I have to conduct sometimes extremely difficult meetings at work with subjects of my, ahem, attention. Further, I can come across as rather boisterous, loud, and cocky on both this forum and in my local pub.

In realty, I am quite an introverted person, have always been self critical, certainly in terms of appearance, and am certainly self obsessed, finding it extremely difficult to easily accept differing viewpoints, arguments, and stuff I simply either do not like, or get. In that, I suppose that I am much like the typical PA forum member

In terms of the fairer sex, I was absolutely hopeless at getting a girlfriend, at keeping her once I had crossed that bridge, and I was, quite simply, useless. I therefore spent more time playing cricket, playing and watching prog, getting drunk, working hard, and reading, all of which I was far better at than dating.

I was 35 when I was lucky enough to meet the most beautiful woman on God's earth. As her best friend had brought her to my local pub to meet me without my knowledge or consent, I was also extraordinarily drunk. I managed to drag myself to work the next morning, in spite of the most awful hangover, and met Glynis in town. I had forgotten her name from the night before, which, as you can imagine, was slightly awkward. I did, though, take her for a non alcoholic drink, and invited her to the house a couple of days later to cook her a nice Italian meal. Indeed, the meal was so nice, I have not been allowed to cook one again since

The key to this. I was myself. I did not try to be anybody other than me. She loves me for being me, and I love her for not just being her, but for having the patience and love to put up with me and my many foibles.

I hate nightclubs, and have since I was young. Therefore, I realised that trying to meet ladies in such places was a waste of time. As Dean said, it is extremely difficult to do such things when you are feeling very awkward out of your comfort zone.

I remember my dearly loved late grandfather, who was rather obsessed with yours truly continuing the family name and genetic heritage, rather despairing at me ever meeting anyone. It was the proudest day of my life when I presented him with his great grandson, my boy Ioan, who is now a strapping six foot three fifteen year old.

That does not mean to say that it would have been a "failure" had I remained single. I was quite happy being single, in my own strange way, provided I had good health, a local pub to drink in, enough money to buy music, and access to decent pornography    Being single is not a failure if that is what you are happy with. The most important thing in all of this is to be simply happy.

So, my advice, for what it is worth. Get drunk in the company of ladies.......erm.....wait......no.......simply be yourself. It is an old cliche that there is someone for everybody, but it is true. Don't worry about it. It will come in its own time, and it will be, as with me, when you least expect it, or when every sensible person has given up on it ever happening.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 13 2016 at 12:45
After a couple failed marriages and several long-term liaisons (one resulting in a child out of wedlock), I have finally found someone who will put up with my sh*t long-term. Not that I don't have to put up with her sh*t, but I don't believe the load of manure is balanced equitably on the scales of love. Wink It has been over 15 years, and I appreciate her every day for her inherent fairness and kindness (in between my curmudgeonly black humors, of course). Luckily, I fell into a good one this time 'round and can't imagine being elsewhere with anyone else. Really, it is all a matter of some arcane and inexplicable concoction of luck and effort.

But there really isn't an art or science to it. You won't imbibe any wisdom from a book that experience will not teach you like a cold slap in the face. You work on it until it no longer is work and there is no need for continual reexamination. Or perhaps there was no work required at all, but a natural progression and a mutual Interest that transcends "interests". You often hear of, and I have experienced, the idea of growing apart; however, if you are with the right person, one can set off on journeys of self-discovery that do not impinge or alienate one's partner. I suppose it has something to do with eschewing selfishness and jealousy and trusting in the fundamental goodness of the relationship.

And with that, I will leave off with the platitudes, and let someone else meander with their metaphors. 

Originally posted by Micky Micky wrote:

ditto though I may add.. there is no failure in failure. Unless you marry a Satanic soul sucking  Red-head.

What is it with red-heads and Satanic soul-sucking? I have had a relationship like that with a volatile ginger as well.


Edited by The Dark Elf - August 13 2016 at 12:49
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 13 2016 at 12:54
OK, no time to read the answers this morning, so I chose to post humour

But I can only echo Dean's words about self-confidence as being a good starting point at interesting the fairer sex in you... Let's be careful at not overdoing it either by becoming an arrogant arse, though... Yeah, some (usually blond and busty) women never learn and systematically end-up with the worst dicks in town, but then again, that cleavage of hers is where her brains are.
a good dose of humour helps a lot too. Women don't like depressive or boring people...
Being a good lover helps too, but generally that's when you need her to come back to you, so be attentive and generous with her needs and wishes >> she'll know that you're not an egotst dork

To be self-confident, it surely helps to like yoursef as a person: if you were from the other sex, would you date a guy like yourself??
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 13 2016 at 13:10
As far as I'm concerned, I should be infinitely grateful to everyone who responded to my post since I have no real  straws to clutch where I live, and I'm finally getting advice from real people (I think ... but hey, we are a community  after all, right?).*

Back to the show. Thank you, fellas. 

=====================================================

Strangely enough, I did not feel comfortable asking everyone in my family this very same set of questions (How about that?) ... probably because I don't want to know what a female would think of me. (Again with the concern for self-image. And yes, my uncle and I are the only grown men in my family). All my younger aunt had to say to this is: "read a book". And my grandmother said: "What are you, raised by wolves?", and I said "Yeah".


Edited by Dayvenkirq - August 13 2016 at 13:18
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 13 2016 at 14:15
^
Sorry but your Gram's quote is funny  LOL
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 13 2016 at 14:45

Originally posted by The Dark Elf The Dark Elf wrote:

Originally posted by Micky Micky wrote:

ditto though I may add.. there is no failure in failure. Unless you marry a Satanic soul sucking  Red-head.

What is it with red-heads and Satanic soul-sucking? I have had a relationship like that with a volatile ginger as well.


hmmmm...what is it?..

ahhhh...































that should sum it up....LOL



Edited by micky - August 13 2016 at 14:46
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 13 2016 at 15:27
^ Very true, Mick. Fortunately, I frustrated my personal redheaded leannán sídhe. Being an atheist, I had no soul to suck. She is now feeding on some other hapless fool even as we speak. Evil Smile
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 13 2016 at 15:27
Originally posted by Finnforest Finnforest wrote:

^
Sorry but your Gram's quote is funny  LOL
Actually, she said that as a comment on my social skills when we were talking about the lack of communication between my mother and me (after Gramma suggested I should get my relationship advice from my mother, who's been in god-knows-how-many failed relationships. And why get advice from someone who can't even start and maintain a healthy relationship, right? ... I suppose I shouldn't get into more minutia of it.). 

Edited by Dayvenkirq - August 13 2016 at 15:30
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 13 2016 at 15:52
Originally posted by The Dark Elf The Dark Elf wrote:

^ Very true, Mick. Fortunately, I frustrated my personal redheaded leannán sídhe. Being an atheist, I had no soul to suck. She is now feeding on some other hapless fool even as we speak. Evil Smile


LOL

unforuntately I had a lot... I've was told once by a voodoo priestess in New Orleans that my soul glowed like the sun and was a very old soul soon to finally leave this earth.  Well my ex damn near sucked it dry and sent me on my way to whereever we go when we leave this Earth. No worse feeling that feeling one is trapped in a bad marriage.

10 years worth of soul and self esteem gone ... yeah. I could write a book about those 10 years.  Garden variety Soul sucking Redheads are fun enough...I dated 4 previous to Becks....however NEVER MARRY ONE LOL I guess it took a ex-Mormon redhead to raise her to spawn of Satan queen soul sucker status by the time I realized I was in the clutches of old scratchs right hand woman... I was trapped. 

Think preachers daughters are wild.. sh*t... they got nothing on ex-Mormons.....
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 13 2016 at 20:24
Well, looking at Micky's former post, I'm glad that my current infatuation is not a redhead. Still, times are not easy in the teenage world of love. As I go back to school, I fear that I will have hard times getting over the girl who loves Rush almost as much as I do (I know, a proghead's dream and I screwed it up). I gave her one hint on Valentine's Day and then she stops speaking to me. Meanwhile, the other girl I like lives 50 miles away at another school and I barely even know her but can't stop thinking about her.

I hate love.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 13 2016 at 20:30
Truly wishing you both the best at this....despite being old I remember those feelings Eliot.....horrible one moment, electric the next.  Decades later I'm still second guessing some of the moves I made and some that I didn't  LOL
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