I just got felony arrested, not kidding.

^^Well, it's an interesting discussion to be sure.

As is Robert's query about Liberty versus safety.  That question is probably another thread though as it could go in many directions. 


Edited by Finnforest - April 29 2010 at 15:53

Epignosis wrote: But places in the US have banned guns, only to find that crime increases

I can see that as a short term effect, yes. The outlaws feel more at ease and take advantage of the situation; some citizens feel deprived of their right and hide the guns, tension grows from all sides... But I can see no other solution to the problem. Investing money and trust in people's lives and it will profit... with lives saved. Build more prisons (as you said), finance raids, extreme control, surveillance, etc and don't expect results very soon.

Epignosis wrote: If you are saying that Europe has lower crime without guns, then clearly the guns are not the variable.

Why?

Tarquin Underspoon wrote: I would like to interrupt this debate to inform everyone that police in general give me serious heebie-jeebies.   You may now resume contructive discussion.

Really?  You prefer a gangbanger in your face?
I love coppers.  Park one in front of my house 24/7 and I'd be happy as a clam.  I'd bake cookies for the man (or woman). 



Edited by Finnforest - April 29 2010 at 16:11

Finnforest wrote: I love coppers.  Park one in front of my house 24/7 and I'd be happy as a clam.  I'd bake cookies for the man (or woman).

Yes, but they might eat all your doughnuts.  By all means have fun with this thread.  I'm just glad the copper who pointed a gun at my face didn't have an itchy trigger finger.  Otherwise I'd either be dead now or in the hospital with severe brain damage.

harmonium.ro wrote: Gangsters are much better. Their language is much more colourful!

Say hello to my little friend?


Edited by Slartibartfast - April 29 2010 at 16:14

True Brian, but, criminals put far more good people like you in caskets than police officers do.  

Finnforest wrote: True Brian, but, criminals put far more good people like you in caskets than police officers do.

And they don't need guns to do it, just a truck full of fertilizer does the trick.

Dalezilla wrote: harmonium.ro wrote: Epignosis wrote: But places in the US have banned guns, only to find that crime increases I can see that as a short term effect, yes. The outlaws feel more at ease and take advantage of the situation; some citizens feel deprived of their right and hide the guns, tension grows from all sides... But I can see no other solution to the problem. Investing money and trust in people's lives and it will profit... with lives saved. Build more prisons (as you said), finance raids, extreme control, surveillance, etc and don't expect results very soon. Banning guns doesn't work for the same reason banning alcohol didn't work and banning drugs isn't working.

The only thing common to those three is the fact that they were banned. By your logic,
- anyone who has ever bought an overpriced, illegal bottle of whiskey to satisfy a minor vice would also buy a killing device just because one comes after another (?)
- dumping the ban on heroin would lower the consume
etc

harmonium.ro wrote: I am taking bets whether this thread overdoes the social security thread (the chances are at 2.5 right now) or the atheist thread (at 20 right now)

Who doesn't love a good heated discussion gone sour?

Knowing APD, I'm surprised they didn't just arrest you for sh*ts and giggles. You got off lucky, chief.

harmonium.ro wrote: Epignosis wrote: But places in the US have banned guns, only to find that crime increases I can see that as a short term effect, yes. The outlaws feel more at ease and take advantage of the situation; some citizens feel deprived of their right and hide the guns, tension grows from all sides... But I can see no other solution to the problem. Investing money and trust in people's lives and it will profit... with lives saved. Build more prisons (as you said), finance raids, extreme control, surveillance, etc and don't expect results very soon. Epignosis wrote: If you are saying that Europe has lower crime without guns, then clearly the guns are not the variable. Why?

Let me ask this (it's my roundabout way of answering "why"):

What percentage of the homicides in the US are gang-related and/or involving hard drugs?

According to this, 22.4% of federally incarcerated people and 32.6% of state incarcerated people reported to being under the influence of drugs during the time of their offense.

According to this chart, 1.2% of all deaths in the US involve firearms (and this includes gang warfare, self-defensive shootings, and police shooting dangerous criminals).

This article states that in one city, 86% of homicides were gang-related.

In Europe, do countries have a problem with gangs like our large cities do?  What's the situation there?