Your thoughts on Vegitarianism

Dayvenkirq wrote: ^ Depends on the nature of the food being consumed. If it possesses intelligence or emotional capacity, I wouldn't eat it.

So, no puppies or kittens for you, I guess?

^Yes but a vegetarian can eat cheese is the point. Of course a vegan can't (as  you well know) I used to work on a dairy farm btw. We removed  the calves immediately from their parent. Then we grew them  for  stock.  We kept the best and sold the worst and all the males.

Dayvenkirq wrote: ^ Depends on the nature of the food being consumed. If it possesses intelligence or emotional capacity, I wouldn't eat it.

Gerinski wrote: Dayvenkirq wrote: ^ Depends on the nature of the food being consumed. If it possesses intelligence or emotional capacity, I wouldn't eat it. That's a pretty muddy statement... where do you draw the line may I ask? some people maintain that plants have "emotional capacity". They can certainly react to external stimuli, whether you call that "emotional" or not is up to debate. Can we be sure that a plant does not "feel pain" when it gets cut? maybe they just can not express that pain to us.

It also crosses into the realm of cold-blooded animals, like fish, molluscs and crustaceans. Cephalopod's such as squid and cuttlefish register emoton and exhibit a degree of intelligence. 

Gerinski wrote: Dean wrote:  Cheese is a meat product. Cheese production involves the death of a calf, both for the milk and the rennet required to curdle the milk.  I'm not an expert but I doubt that this is accurate. I believe that it's perfectly possible to obtain cow milk (and make cheese out of it) without jeopardizing the life of the cow and its calves. Whether this is what they actually do or not is something else.

It is a matter of quantity. You can take a small amount of milk from a cow without jeopardising the life of the cow or its calves, but not in the volumes we consume milk products in. Organic milk does not qualify as ethically or humanitarian produced milk so at the moment we have no means of knowing how the milk we buy is produced. Of course I don't need to know so have no need to find out, but for a vegetarian who adopts that lifestyle diet on ethical grounds (rather than simply not liking the taste of meat) then I would suggest they find out. I'm not making accusations against vegetarians here, just pointing out that dairy (and eggs come to that) isn't helping the cow (or hen).

Edited by Dean - January 18 2013 at 10:44

Dean wrote: Snow Dog wrote: Gerinski wrote: Dean wrote:  Cheese is a meat product. Cheese production involves the death of a calf, both for the milk and the rennet required to curdle the milk.  I'm not an expert but I doubt that this is accurate. I believe that it's perfectly possible to obtain cow milk (and make cheese out of it) without jeopardizing the life of the cow and its calves. Whether this is what they actually do or not is something else. I just said so above. But some death is inevitable. There is no way any farmer will keep a male calf. Economics doesn't allow it. You didn't actually say so above. You said the calves were removed immediately from their parent. Then grew them for stock and sold them (presumable still as calves or heifers) - you didn't say what happened to them after they were sold. The point is those calves were not kept as pets or raised to produce nothing but milk.   Snow Dog wrote: And will no one correct the spelling in the thread title? Nope.

Dean wrote: Snow Dog wrote: I presume they were slaughtered. Never asked actually. Cows that didn't give milk enough were definitely slaughtered. There was no other use for them. I presume the male calves were too. Animal rennet only comes from the stomach of a calf (it is an enzyme used to digest the milk - an adult cow or bull does not need it so does not produce it) - this is taken from the slaughtered calves - if veal is off the menu then the calf meat goes into pet food.

I would find it difficult not eating any cheese, animal products, but moderation is the mother of all virtues.

Im a level 4 Vegan...I don't eat anything that casts a shadow

timothy leary wrote: Dean wrote: timothy leary wrote: Kosher cheese is safe for vegetarians as it contains no rennet per mosaic law. There are many cheeses which contain no rennet. There are many types of rennet which are not from the stomachs of young mammals. None of them in my opinion are a "noble cause" ... and Halal cheese.   Can you drop the "noble cause" bit now? Didn't we clear that up yesterday? After your big lecture yesterday about what the thread was about I just threw it in there for you

I'm flattered, but you shouldn't have.